On another note, this is why Talkbass is so cool, you can have the pres. of GK, the engineer for Genz-Benz and a well respected audio engineer focused on horn loading discussing what's really going on in our cabs and why they sound the way they do......God Bless TB.
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Neodymium Cabinets "Panorama"?
- Thread starter alexlotta
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,968
- 5
- 220,669
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
What happens outside of the gap makes a difference in distortion if it's asymmetrical. Also, on high excursion drivers, much of the VC winding spends it's time outside the gap so the fringing does come into play but certainly to a much lesser effect than the primary field withing the gap... until the VC exits the gap of course
+1 that rocks!! where else can you get this level of audio nerd stimulation?
(no offense, I am a huge nerd for this stuff
)ThanKs Stumbo,No comments there on differences between heads,but good listing for reference.
just added courteously (if possible) particular focus on what matches MY direct experience and needs.
Here where i live i can't try anything of the cabinets mentioned,with the exception of markbass.
Impossible is the direct comparison of the different
brands,which You located in Usa can sort out easily instead.
I like deeper sounds,but 4xcones are heavy for me now,
the only closer to my likings i've heard are 2x12's ,
the rest you mentioned is just "demagogic words",always valid as a general rule not only for cabinets but fairly unpratical in that case to me(otherwise i would'nt even start a thread like that)
If one says to me that a neo 2x10 of a certain brand sounds as a 2x12 ,i'm hearing him though.
___________________________________
Finally ,the thread got in a far more interesting direction useful for Tbers here ,so i just kept how it is .
With the addon of some good tbers pointing me in interesting links too.
Thank You all guys.
With all the respect ,it's frankly what i've asked,
just added courteously (if possible) particular focus on what matches MY direct experience and needs.
Here where i live i can't try anything of the cabinets mentioned,with the exception of markbass.
Impossible is the direct comparison of the different
brands,which You located in Usa can sort out easily instead.
I like deeper sounds,but 4xcones are heavy for me now,
the only closer to my likings i've heard are 2x12's ,
the rest you mentioned is just "demagogic words",always valid as a general rule not only for cabinets but fairly unpratical in that case to me(otherwise i would'nt even start a thread like that)
If one says to me that a neo 2x10 of a certain brand sounds as a 2x12 ,i'm hearing him though.
___________________________________
Finally ,the thread got in a far more interesting direction useful for Tbers here ,so i just kept how it is .
With the addon of some good tbers pointing me in interesting links too.
Thank You all guys.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
+1. There comes a point where a larger magnet reduces the driver Qts to the point that it kills response in the bass. That's why an Eminence Beta 10 with a 34 oz. magnet and a Qts of 0.49 has much better bass response than a Kappa Pro 10 with an 80 Oz. magnet and a Qts of .20. Cabs loaded with the Kappa Pro, purely on the basis of the higher power rating of that driver, resulted in a heavier cab with lower bass output than cabs loaded with less expensive Betas.
The flux available with neo means even very light weight drivers can have very low Qts values. That's fine if the intent is high sensitivity in the midrange, but it's counterproductive as far as bass response is concerned. As an example, the B&C 12NW76 has poor bass response, not because it's a neo, but because the size of the neo magnet used results in a Qts of .16. Many will use this driver based on its 1,000 watt rating, assuming that rating is what matters most. It isn't.
Chef
In Memoriam
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,968
- 5
- 220,669
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
+1. There comes a point where a larger magnet reduces the driver Qts to the point that it kills response in the bass. That's why an Eminence Beta 10 with a 34 oz. magnet and a Qts of 0.49 has much better bass response than a Kappa Pro 10 with an 80 Oz. magnet and a Qts of .20. Cabs loaded with the Kappa Pro, purely on the basis of the higher power rating of that driver, resulted in a heavier cab with lower bass output than cabs loaded with less expensive Betas.
The flux available with neo means even very light weight drivers can have very low Qts values. That's fine if the intent is high sensitivity in the midrange, but it's counterproductive as far as bass response is concerned. As an example, the B&C 12NW76 has poor bass response, not because it's a neo, but because the size of the neo magnet used results in a Qts of .16. Many will use this driver based on its 1,000 watt rating, assuming that rating is what matters most. It isn't.
And this points out very nicely the tradeoffs ALL manufacturers must make regarding their choices when developing cabinets and customizing drivers that perform better for their intended set of tradeoffs.
A driver that I might choose for a compact ported enclosure may be a poor choice for one of Bill's horn loaded cabinets, and vis versa. We are both operating with a completely different set of design and performance parameters.
Another parameter that is not well characterized by the TS parameters but VERY important to bass guitar speakers is the voicing of the high frequency response. The Le of the driver is only a very small part of the end result.
Yeah, really cool!
I'm in Oklahoma which is similar, hard to find much. I have to buy things to try them out...at least shipping is more reasonable here. I feel your pain.
As far as 212s go, they tend to weigh about the same as 410 cabs these days.
+1
STICKY!
or at least an addendum to a current sticky!
info like this is nice for homebrew guys like myself.
or at least an addendum to a current sticky!
info like this is nice for homebrew guys like myself.
alexclaber
Commercial User
A cool thread... May I put myself forwards to be added to the list as a very small bass cab manufacturer fish on the other side of the large pond! (Just writing my owners' guide at the moment).
Alex
Alex
