New Ampeg Venture Series

[LetItGrowTone]

To @rzero:
Sorry man! If I post about it, after composing my thoughts about it, not in this thread, I promise to remember to link you to the new thread.

 

[JimmyM]

@agedhorse's post above my previous one is very important, as it confirms that there's more than one source of delay, and that one of them is due to the "moving mass" of air in a resonant system (like the classic "mass and spring" or a child on a swing, etc). In normal operation such systems don't reach maximum amplitude instantly, and can't be stopped instantly either. [You can hear this in the sound of an early-tech keyboard synth that sounds like a robot, vs an organ pipe or even a flute, where these delays humanize their voices.]

In the case of the VB-88, this delay (although as I said I hadn't noticed it consciously until I A-Bd with a sealed cab) due to the above cause must be much more than just group delay: around the note A1 +/- some, the VB-88 is only just beginning to roll off a little, so the group delay there is probably very little. In smaller ported cabs, and those tuned higher, I had not noticed any delay, so this was a new lesson.

So, in order to complete and close out the series of posts I've made here praising the VB-88 (and I still think it's very nice):
1) It fixed the problem I had with ported cabs tuned above 41Hz.
2) But then I noticed this delay, figured that it happens to a lesser degree in all ported cabs, thought about a variable delay causing variable phase relationships with higher frequencies on the same note, and concluded that either the variable delay or the phase chaos is probably the explanation for something else (that sealed cab fans sometimes ascribe to ported cabs), but I'll avoid trying to describe or explain it here. And I believe I confirmed it with another cab tuned this low.

So, I'm done with ported cabs. It's just my own weighting of the various compromises in all cab designs.
Very expensive lessons, but as that guy laying on the sidewalk in Dirty Harry said: "I got to know".

I respect the quest for knowledge, but I’ve been sitting this conversation out because ported or sealed never made a difference to me as long as I liked what I heard. You’re not the only one who doesn’t like ported cabs, though. Me, I just don’t like cabs that go much lower than the 810 and B15.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

To @JimmyM:
I have a Heritage fridge and I think its low E sounds perfect. I was talking about tuning ported cabs lower in order to move that problem I was talking about to below the range of the instrument, where I wouldn't hear it. Well, now I won't be hearing it. Feel pretty good about it.

Footnote: A 4-string actually often goes much lower than 41Hz due to "difference products" (as I'm sure you know), but that's another topic.

 

[CamJazzBass]

To @JimmyM:
I have a Heritage fridge and I think its low E sounds perfect. I was talking about tuning ported cabs lower in order to move that problem I was talking about to below the range of the instrument, where I wouldn't hear it. Well, now I won't be hearing it. Feel pretty good about it.

Footnote: A 4-string actually often goes much lower than 41Hz due to "difference products" (as I'm sure you know), but that's another topic.

I'm confused because I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying you have an issue with the VB-88?

 

[LetItGrowTone]

To @CamJazzBass: No, the VB-88 is already tuned low enough, somewhere below 41Hz.

 

[CamJazzBass]

To @CamJazzBass: No, the VB-88 is already tuned low enough, somewhere below 41Hz. It was a 215 tuned to about 47Hz that I had a problem with.

Oh, I see. Cool. I'm partial about my 88. I would put it up against any cab around. It absolutely kills.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Hey @CamJazzBass, it sounds "like the album", right? I wish more people knew. Its low E sounds pure and clear, almost like a DI through headphones, right? I know it would make a good hifi speaker because I tried it (just one channel).

 

[CamJazzBass]

Hey @CamJazzBass, it sounds "like the album", right? I wish more people knew. Its low E sounds pure and clear, almost like a DI through headphones, right? I think it would make a good hifi speaker.

[it sounds "like the album", right?]

You'll get me in trouble with this. I tell everyone that when they go to a concert of some old band, if it sounds like the album, they are using tracks.

Seriously though, the damn cab sounds outstanding. It projects exactly what I want it to and it still punches and bumps. My drummer said the damn thing was rearranging his insides.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

It was established above that the output from the port is delayed (compared to sound straight from the cones). This post completes my comments about that, and I won't belabor *this* thread about it again.

To @rzero and others interested:
The output from the port is maximum at resonance, at the tuning frequency.
Moving away from resonance, either higher or lower, decreases the contribution from the port (which is delayed) and increases the contribution from the cones (which is not delayed).
So, walking a bass line above and below resonance gets a variable mix of (delayed + not delayed) for each note, so it is not surprising that this might feel to some players that they don't have a rock-solid foundation.

The above is the best reason I can think of for why some sealed cab fans say that the lows of ported cabs feel floating or unanchored.

There are also reflections around the room, which come back to the ears delayed. We can sense the size of the room from this ambience, and in the same way the brain might interpret the delayed portion from the port as *coming from farther away*, thus, "unanchored", as some say.

***
Mono, through the VB-88, sounds *overwhelmingly* better than the two 12" three-way stereo speakers on either side of my monitor. It's very pleasant to listen to lesson audio/video through these, and it blends with the output from my bass rig much better.

 

[dfp]

Anyone playing their 22.8” wide Venture cabs with SVT or V4B(reissue) 24” wide heads? Is the look too muffin toppy? I think about silly stuff like that…

 

[JimmyM]

Anyone playing their 22.8” wide Venture cabs with SVT or V4B(reissue) 24” wide heads? Is the look too muffin toppy? I think about silly stuff like that…

I don’t see anything silly about that whatsoever. I haven’t done it, but I don’t think it would be a horrible look. Still, take that with a bottle of salt.