New bassist looking for cab setup advice

[_faust]

Hey friends!

I have been playing bass for about two years now & I'm looking to upgrade. My current setup is a used BA-115 Combo & the cheapest used Squire P Bass I could find ($100 each). A month ago I joined my first band & we play rock & roll, punk, metal, indie, funk, & reggae. As much as I enjoy my 100W Ampeg, it is no longer cutting it in the rehearsal space with loud punk drumming. This week I bought an Aguilar Tone Hammer 700 for my amp after listening to quite a few sound demos & reading reviews. Now I'm losing my mind trying to decide on a single cab to pair with it (1x15, 2x12, 4x10). I'm leaning towards an Aguilar DB 115 as it is 8 ohms & 400 watts plus that old-school tone. This will give me room to add a 2x10 or 4x10 as needed later on. I listened to a few of their SL models & wasn't blown away by the sound. I went to Guitar Center last week & they kept pushing the MarkBass but I wasn't crazy about their lightweight series either. I was open to Ampeg but I have read that some of their recent cabs aren't made like they used to be. Buying a used cab online worries me a bit because I can't really listen to it prior unless its local.

To sum up: I'm looking for a new single cab that I can build off of down the line. Also something to play bars, clubs, and small to medium venues. As a single cab should I buy a 1x15, 2x12, or 4x10? I play mainly metal, punk, indie, and reggae.

Thanks a bunch everyone!

 

[coryr1000]

I paired my Aguilar AG700 head with a 4 ohm Aguilar SL410 and it cuts through almost any situation. If I'm gigging outdoors or on a large stage I add an 8 ohm SL112 on top of it so I can hear myself better. The 700 watt Aguilar heads are stable down to 2.67 ohms so there is no issue mixing a 4 ohm and 8 ohm cabinet. I have also used my Tone Hammer 350 with the SL112 and the AG700 with the SL410 for a kind of bi-amping set up.

 

[HardNHeavy]

Is this a 2 guitar band?...1x15 might be ok for a 1 guitar band or even a 2x12 for portability of the two. But im guessing your gonna be plenty loud with metal/punk...When you mentioned reggae it just reminds me of the band the bad brains and there's nothing low volume about them
I was in a cpl of metal bands several times over the yrs and the only 2 amps i used at the time was my hartke 4x10 in one band and a 2x15 for another with no problems hearing myself. The 4x10 is much easier to move than the 2x15 but that's up to you. I had tried a SWR 1x15 and a fender rumble 15", but they didnt cut it for me with 2 screaming guitarists and a hard hitting drummer. a 1x15 be ok for smaller clubs i'd think.

 

[JFlo]

Welcome to Talkbass and the challenging world of live music! Punk clubs and dive bars are where I always recommend the most speakers you can haul. The PAs are usually undersized and mostly for vocals. Older 4x10s are cheap so you should look for something common so you can find a 2nd matching one down the road. Ampeg 410HE, Aguilar, Hartke and Carvin are all good options. The last version Carvin made (BX410?) Was well made and sounded decent. I also see Genz-Benz neo x212 cabs pop up frequently fairly cheap but they are 4 ohm. Cabs to avoid: Avatar, Behringer and SWR (replacement speakers are out of production).

 

[JimChjones]

It probably doesn't matter too much. All bass cabs are targeted at the same instrument and vigorous use of amp tone controls will cover a large percentage of the difference.

As has been said above, if you need volume you need speaker area. It's actually far more important than watts. When getting a second cab it's safest to have two the same. It's all too easy, when mixing say 10s and 15s, or even different brands, to get the worst of both rather than the best.

For reference, a 2x10 is roughly equivalent to a 1x15. A 2x12 will normally have significantly more muscle than either. So an 8ohm 2x12 will give you a nice step up from where you are, and a second one would do serious damage. A cheap old school 4x10 or 2x15 should be plenty, but I'm not going to help you transport the damn thing.

 

[_faust]

It probably doesn't matter too much. All bass cabs are targeted at the same instrument and vigorous use of amp tone controls will cover a large percentage of the difference.

As has been said above, if you need volume you need speaker area. It's actually far more important than watts. When getting a second cab it's safest to have two the same. It's all too easy, when mixing say 10s and 15s, or even different brands, to get the worst of both rather than the best.

For reference, a 2x10 is roughly equivalent to a 1x15. A 2x12 will normally have significantly more muscle than either. So an 8ohm 2x12 will give you a nice step up from where you are, and a second one would do serious damage. A cheap old school 4x10 or 2x15 should be plenty, but I'm not going to help you transport the damn thing.

Thanks for the great reply Jim! Do you think 2 2x10's would do the trick & have enough low end?

 

[shoot-r]

Cabs to avoid: Avatar, Behringer and SWR (replacement speakers are out of production).

I can't speak to Behringer's or SWR's 410 cabs and the availability of replacement drivers or reconing kits for them, but the Avatar cabs were designed by Eminence USA engineers to be used with Eminence components.
The readily available Eminence USA 2510 Neo drivers sound extremely good with the cab tuning used by Avatar's B210 and 410 cabinets.

 

[NocoLaw]

FYI, the area of a 10” circle is 78 square inches; a 12” is 113 square inches; 15” is 176 square inches. The differences in area are a lot more than most people realize as you step up. So, as Jim said, a 212 (226”2) is significantly more area than a 210 (159”2) or 115 (176”2).

I have done 115, 410, 210, 810, 112 and 212. For me, 12s are the Goldilocks zone, but that’s very personal.

 

[shoot-r]

Do you think 2 2x10's would do the trick & have enough low end?

(How much low-end you get will depend upon which manufacturers 210 cabinets you choose to use and how they are built and tuned.)

I prefer the modular-rig approach of using two, 210 cabs to a single 410 cabinet.
Easier to transport, use one for rehearsals/small jobs, both when more coverage and volume is needed, can be stacked vertical or down low, having two drivers in a cab the power handling is usually better than single driver loaded cabinet.

I've been gigging with two, 8 ohm, 210 cabinets in a working, loud, country/rock group since 2008.

When my ears are wanting to hear more highs, mids, with clarity and with the SPL of having the top driver up near ear level, I'll stack the two, 210's as a vertical 410.
(The low-end is still present when vertical but you can now hear the mids and highs.)

When I want to percieve more low-end, I'll position the cabs set down low, side by side for alittle better boundary coupling effect.
(You'll percieve more low-end because the highs and mids are now blowing past your knees.)

 

[JimChjones]

Thanks for the great reply Jim! Do you think 2 2x10's would do the trick & have enough low end?

According to the poll I have running only 23% of us gig with a rig with a bigger cone area than four 10s, and of those 23% the majority have a 2*15 or a 4*12,. I don't play your genre of music but frankly if the tone hammer and four tens doesn't hack it then you have a bad stage volume problem, and you'll be heading for just as bad tinnitus as I have (thanks to a drummer we called Decibels McK*****).

 

[brianrost]

If you can live without a lightweight cab, there are plenty of used 4-10s on the market at cheap prices, especially Hartke and Ampeg.

 

[Wasnex]

If you are playing in a loud punk band, a single DB115 probably won't cut it.

You can't really draw accurate conclusions on how a cab will sound based on the driver size. It mostly comes down to designer intent. This basically means, you need to try cabs till you find the sound you like. Reviews can point you in the right direction, but they can also be misleading because they tend to be more subjective than objective.

After you find a cab you think sounds good, focus on sound pressure level (SPL) more so than power. SPL results from both usable power and the cab's sensitivity. Usable power is the minimum value between how much power the amp can deliver and how much power the cab can handle. Use RMS ratings rather than program or peak power ratings.

For cabs, use mechanical power ratings when they are available, which is rare.
Explanation: A cab's RMS power rating tells you the long term power the woofers' voice coils and handle. However, the woofers may exceed their excursion limits at some frequencies below 100hz with significantly less than their RMS power rating.

To estimate available SPL you need the usable power and the cab's Sensitivity expressed at 1W/1m.

The DB115 is rated 400W RMS at 8 ohms with a Sensitivity of 96dB 1W/1m. This Sensitivity is low to medium.

The current TH700 is rated 700 watts @ 2.67 or 4 ohms, 350 watts @ 8 ohms

Formula for Calculated SPL = [10Log(Usable Power)] + Sensitivity at 1W/1m

The part of the formula in the brackets tells you the decibel change from raising the power from 1W to whatever the usable power is.

• Decibel Change (TH700 into 8 ohm load) 1W to 350W = 10Log(350) = 25.4dB
• Decibel Change (TH700 into 2.67 or 4 ohm load) 1W to 700W = 10Log(700) = 28.5dB

So the Calculated SPL for the DB115 is 24.5 + 96 = 121.4dB

IME 121.4dB might get the job done, but there are many situations where I would want more headroom. My personal minimum is a rig rated for at least 124dB

If you add a matching cab, we normally assume the impedance is cut in half, the power handling doubles, and the sensitivity increases by ~3dB. This assumes the cabs are connected in parallel to the amp.

The calculated SPL for a TH700 and a pair of DB115s is 28.5 + 99 = 127.5dB

Explanation: If you double both the cabs and usable power, available headroom increases by ~6dB. 3dB come from doubling the power and 3dB comes from the sensitivity increase.

IME 127dB is not always loud enough, but I am unwilling to really turn up this much, even with ear plugs.

Other DB series options:

• The DB210 is rated 350W with 98dB Sensitivity at 8 ohms.
  • One DB210 = 25.4 + 98 = 123.4dB
  • Two DB210s = 28.5 + 101 = 129.5dB
• The DB410 is rated 700W with 101dB Sensitivity. I believe this cab is available at 4 or 8 ohms
  • On 8 ohm DB410 = 25.4 + 101 = 126.4dB
  • Two 8 ohm DB410s = 28.5 + 104 = 132.5dB
  • One 4 ohm DB410 = 28.5 + 101 = 129.5dB

If you have the current TH700 you can also run an 8 ohm DB210 and a 4 ohm DB410. The 410 will draw 2/3rds of available power, but all six 10s will share the power equally.

The Sensitivity of the individual 10s is ~95dB. For six drivers the sensitivity theoretically increases 10Log(6) = ~7.8dB So the combined Sensitivity of all six 10s receiving equal power is 95 + 7.8 = 102.8dB

• Calculated SPL of 8 ohm dB210 and 4 ohm DB410 at 700W = 28.5 + 102.8 = 131.3dB

 

[baxter_x]

If you can live without a lightweight cab, there are plenty of used 4-10s on the market at cheap prices, especially Hartke and Ampeg.

The Hartke HL410 is very light and sounds absolutely fantastic!

 

[-Stingray]

4x10 all of the way. Don't even think of anything else.

If you are short on funds look for an older one. My Eden 4x10 weighs a ton, but pushes air like a mofo (and in excellent shape was under $300).

 

[bearhart74]

I would search out two Acme b2(2-10) 8ohm cabs and call it a day.

 

[sdjfoh]

4x10 or 2x12
Find a used one on Craigslist and try it out

 

[RGerhart]

Hard to beat a 4X10, but a 2X12 is great, too. My vote is for the 410. Honestly, if you can find a used 410 from Aguilar, Eden, or Bergantino online, go for it.

 

[iiipopes]

Hey friends!

I have been playing bass for about two years now & I'm looking to upgrade. My current setup is a used BA-115 Combo & the cheapest used Squire P Bass I could find ($100 each). A month ago I joined my first band & we play rock & roll, punk, metal, indie, funk, & reggae. As much as I enjoy my 100W Ampeg, it is no longer cutting it in the rehearsal space with loud punk drumming. This week I bought an Aguilar Tone Hammer 700 for my amp after listening to quite a few sound demos & reading reviews. Now I'm losing my mind trying to decide on a single cab to pair with it (1x15, 2x12, 4x10). I'm leaning towards an Aguilar DB 115 as it is 8 ohms & 400 watts plus that old-school tone. This will give me room to add a 2x10 or 4x10 as needed later on. I listened to a few of their SL models & wasn't blown away by the sound. I went to Guitar Center last week & they kept pushing the MarkBass but I wasn't crazy about their lightweight series either. I was open to Ampeg but I have read that some of their recent cabs aren't made like they used to be. Buying a used cab online worries me a bit because I can't really listen to it prior unless its local.

To sum up: I'm looking for a new single cab that I can build off of down the line. Also something to play bars, clubs, and small to medium venues. As a single cab should I buy a 1x15, 2x12, or 4x10? I play mainly metal, punk, indie, and reggae.

Thanks a bunch everyone!

I picked "other," because I have gigged out of just about every configuration of speaker cab there is over the last fifty years. Find one that is compatible with the amp. Take your bandmates along when you go shopping and let them stand some distance away to hear what you really sound like through any particular cab. Try them all. Keep weight in mind - are you still going to want to haul it around ten or more years from now? Oh - and keep the Ampeg setup. It will be great as a practice set-up and might even sound good in the studio.

 

[Gervais Cote]

212 or 410 are the way to go.

Try as many as you can with your amp and let your ears dictate your choice.

A Hartke 410 or a GK 212 would be my favorite for your music style, used or new.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

As an owner of the DB115 cab and someone who plays loud punk, grungy style music, the DB115 just won't cut it.
To deliberately misquote Jaws;
You're gonna need a bigger cab!!

In this neck of the woods, a new DB115 and matching 210 is almost $4k. (Second hand its still $2.3k if and when you can find them) and the weight of both cabs is phenomenal and you'll (more than likely) get sick of lugging them around quick enough.
For $500 - $800 a second-hand 215 (or anything else other than the DB115) would be a much better choice.

***Edited***
If I had to offer a choice of cabs to consider;
Markbass 152CL or 106CL.
Lightweight when compared to others, vintage sound, 800 watts 4 ohms. Good SPL. Not everyone's cup of tea.

Genz Benz 610 xb2, Great tone but probably rare and awkward to move, transport.

GK 212 or 412. Awesome cabs.

Fender 610 or 410 (the ones with the rectangular silver Fender badge)
410 Pairs nicely with 15" (TB blasphemy?)