New combos and “delay”

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Mo Boogs, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. Mo Boogs

    Mo Boogs

    Mar 26, 2014
    Today I went to my local music shop and tried out a bunch of combos and small amps, looking for one with a little more kick and versatility than my ole Peavey Basic 112. My main gig rig is a 2017 Ampeg V-4B with AV212 cab. Today I tried out an Ampeg Micro CL stack, BA-112, BA-115, Fender Rumble 200 and an Orange crush 50. I gotta say I was unimpressed with just about all of them. I’m not sure what is going on with the new combos today but compared to the old school class A combos and amps they all had a weird little delay in the sound. The fender wasn’t quite as bad but it was still there a hair. The Ampeg’s BA models especially showed the delay when the scrambler was on. The Micro CL didn’t have it too bad but just enough and I really dig the mini 210 vertical cabinet tone but I’d like to try the Micro VR stack before I write that off as a possible choice. The Orange surprisingly didn’t have any delay but it didn’t sound too much like a bass amp either. And the gain section’s a straight up big muff.

    Is this “delay” something class D amps do or is it have something to do with the DSP’s built in these new amps? Does the Micro VR have this sound as well? Like i said the old peaveys and fenders I’ve owned from the 90s and early 2000s never seemed to have this. Kinda makes me wanna keep saving and get a PF-50T for a small rig.
  2. thabassmon


    Sep 26, 2013
    New Zealand
    I haven't found any delay in my Class D amp, it is a 2004 Hughes & Kettner Quantum QC421. An old amp now but it is a class D, maybe the new ones have but mine doesn't.
  3. srayb


    Oct 27, 2010
    I can’t say I’ve experienced that yet but it puts into perspective what another user here commented on Traynor Small Block combos sounding very quick and present. Maybe try one of those for comparison if you can.
  4. pfschim

    pfschim Just a Skeleton with a Jazz bass

    Apr 26, 2006
    SF Bay Area
    It's hard to know what your hearing without hearing it right along side you.

    FWIW, no class A bass amp in the wild as far as I know. All kinds of class A/B amps though.

    Not sure what you mean by delay ... like you strike a note and there is time between the pluck and the sound ? That does not seem right.
    Please take care not to blame things you hear on anything being Class D vs any other amp topology ... Class D is just another topology and works just fine in all kinds of applications ... for instance, it's the most prevalent technology in PA's today and that wouldn't happen if there were some kind of inherent sound/audio impact like a "delay" built in to the design.

    All the combo's you mention are from reputable MI manufacturers, not sure if you can get the sound you want from any combo, but I'm certain these combo's work just fine ... I'm sure some users will come along with their experiences soon.

    The only "combo" I've played in recent memory is the Mesa Walkabout which was, and is, an outstanding amp. Its also a class A/B hybrid (tube pre, SS power).

    good luck
    Monterey Bay-ss likes this.
  5. JKos

    JKos Supporting Member

    Oct 26, 2010
    Surprise, AZ
    Did you realize every TC pedal with toneprint is adding delay (latency) yet no one even mentions that?

    Anyways, I don't think many of the amps you listed are even Class D so you're probably blaming the wrong thing. The Scrambler circuit is analog, it's not adding delay.

    - John
    MattZilla and Element Zero like this.
  6. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    I didn't think class D bass amps even had a DSP.
    Nev375 likes this.
  7. okcrum

    okcrum in your chest

    Oct 5, 2009
    Verde Valley, AZ
    RIP Dark Horse strings
    This must be another spinoff of the draw the line at drugs thread.
    Kyuuga, giacomobass, Stumbo and 5 others like this.
  8. Mo Boogs

    Mo Boogs

    Mar 26, 2014
    Yes maybe delay isn’t the right word. It’s more like a dry acoustic signal of the bass comes thru right away but whatever the amp does to shape the tone comes in a millisecond later. That’s what I noticed. I don’t think it would be as noticeable playing in a band or rockin out. But playing the bass and listening to what’s coming out it feels a little off.
    The rumble is substantially less noticeable with this. The BA’s is where i felt it the most.
  9. JakobT


    Jan 9, 2014
    Oslo, Norway
    Can’t say I’ve ever noticed such a thing, but I run Fender Rumbles, which apparently displays this phenomenon the least. We probably need a professional opinion. Paging @agedhorse! :)
  10. Element Zero

    Element Zero Supporting Member

    Dec 14, 2016
    Here we go...
  11. Dominic D

    Dominic D DiCosimo Audio Commercial User

    Mar 9, 2008
    Winter Park, Florida
    DiCosimo Audio
    Analog amps aren't going to do what you are describing. Since you played them all in the same place, I wonder if it's a weird sounding room.
  12. Mo Boogs

    Mo Boogs

    Mar 26, 2014
    Could be. Could be the bass I was using too. If you A-B a rumble and a BA series peg it would be more obvious. That’s what I was doing.
  13. bbh

    bbh Supporting Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    I’ve had tube amps, solid state amps and class d digital amps. I used to also run a lot of pedals.
    I’ve never heard of this delay issue. I’m curious to get a better description. Could you possibly get us some sound clips of the issue?
  14. Dominic D

    Dominic D DiCosimo Audio Commercial User

    Mar 9, 2008
    Winter Park, Florida
    DiCosimo Audio
    Of the amps you mentioned, I believe only the Fender Rumble 200 is Class D.
    wizard65 likes this.
  15. And I

    And I

    Feb 19, 2009
    Witchtown, MA
    I'm going guess phase issues / room modes playing tricks on ya. The position of the amp in the room and the tuning of each cab doing combined with where your ears were and what angle towards the walls, etc... just some weird dance with the room acoustics... retail spaces traditionally are cubes or rectangles... acoustically problematic...
  16. mikewalker

    mikewalker Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2017
    Canada, Eh!
    Any amp with digital amp modeling in their front-end (some Fenders come to mind) will have to have some latency... 5 milliseconds, maybe?
  17. AlenH


    Jun 18, 2019
    I recently A/B’d the rumble and Ba combos and didn’t hear any sort of delay in either... maybe my hearing is not sensitive enough to notice
  18. Nev375


    Nov 2, 2010
    You should do this.

    Whatever you are talking about, "delay" is the wrong word. But clearly you are hearing something you don't like whether it is real or imagined. (Mind you that's not a dig at you, there are professional musicians who think they hear audio differences in $200 power cables) My point is that it doesn't matter what it is you are hearing. You are spending a lot of money on an amp that you will likely have for a long time. Trust your ears and buy something you like and will have faith in.

    Also I have major gas for a PF-50T myself.
  19. Where did you try these amps? Where you right in front of the speaker? At which distance?

    Sound travels at approximately 1 ft per millisecond, so if you were 1 ft away from the cab, you could perceive exactly what you describe. In a live setting you probably would never even hear the acoustic sound from the bass, so no need to worry about it.
  20. Funkinthetrunk

    Funkinthetrunk Registered User Supporting Member

    I notice this "delay" with my SVT...doesn't bother me much. Vail Johnson once said here on TB that he experiences this with all class Ds. I only have 1 of these amps, not sure if I hear/ feel any delay. For me it's more feel than heard.

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