New EBMM Special Stingray 4HH Bridge Saddle Issue

[bdplaid]

On the other hand replacing the screws was pretty easy. I think the whole process, minus the setup work, took me 15 minutes. I doubt I would get a shim properly fit in that time.

Shimming properly would have taken a good deal longer, because doing that is always trial and error until you get it right. Replacing the screws - which I did as well - took me under 5 minutes. It's great now.

 

[bdplaid]

I wanted to piggyback on your thread instead of starting my own as I'm having a saddle issue with a recently acquired Old Smoothie (I actually owned it previously and bought it back from a co-worker - long story!). I received the bass last Friday and decided to clean it up and restring it. I removed the strings first. As I looked at the saddles, I noticed that they weren't parallel to the bridge. I realize that some like to angle their saddles, but I'm not one of them. With the strings off, I was having a whale of time turning some of the set screws, especially on the G. I was using the proper 1/16 hex wrench. As I attempted to turn one of the set screws on the G, I heard it crack! I immediately pulled the saddle off to discover that the set screw was indeed cracked but it also was stuck in the middle of the saddle. So it was not at the end of its adjustment either way.

I then attempted to adjust the other set screws. Some were easier to turn than others. I pulled all of the saddles to inspect the screws and found that I could easily turn all of them with my fingers, but when they were on the bridge (again, no strings on the bass), it was difficult to turn some of them. As I recall when looking at the saddles as they contacted the bridge, they looked as though they were pitched slightly forward. I assume this is a part of the design and within spec, but it seemed that the slight forward pitch was causing difficulty in turning some of the screws.

Anyway, I removed all of the set screws to inspect them and to soak them in some oil (along with the saddles) and I ventured to Home Depot to get a few replacements. I found 6-32 screws of both sizes (as has been described in this thread, the A and D saddles utilize longer screws than the E and G) and purchased a bunch of extras. When I got home, I reassembled the saddles and set their height by eyeballing them before reattaching them to the intonation screws. I have to say, I was pretty darn close because after I restrung the bass, my action was almost exactly where I wanted it. I'm glad, too, because I still found the set screws (after lubrication) to be somewhat difficult to turn. I even used two different hex wrenches to make sure that my original one wasn't rounding off.

I currently have the bass at my luthiers to have him cut a new nut as the strings I'm using have smaller gauges and they were rattling a bit in the nut slots. My main concern is having to make any future action adjustments. I guess if I keep the same strings on (and I most likely will since I'm having a new nut cut for those specific gauges), I won't have to make any adjustments, but it's a bit frustrating to know that I may revisit this problem some day. I contacted EBMM via e-mail to attempt to describe the issue and I'm waiting to hear back.

Are the screws themselves smaller than the threaded holes? I can imagine if they were, and there was some amount of slop, then the set screws could shift side-to-side in the threaded hole depending on which direction pressure was applied, thereby creating resistance to turning. Locktite might fix or alleviate this.
If it were me, I'd think about re-tapping the holes, or maybe replacing the saddles. Either way, IMO EBMM should take of you. They did me.

 

[Paulabass]

Have tried tightening the truss rod a little? That help me lower the action on mine.

Very bad practice to use the truss rod to adjust action. Truss rod=relief. Do your action from neck angle and bridge.

 

[bdplaid]

I actually replaced all of the screws with new ones from Home Depot to start fresh. I guess I didn't check for slop, but that's a really good point and would explain why I could turn them with my fingers so easily vs. the difficulty in turning them while on the bass with string tension applied. The direction in which the screws sit in the saddle is applying pressure to perhaps one side of the thread and making them difficult to turn.

I'll wait for EBMM to get back to me to see if they'll send me 4 new saddles. There's no reason for them to be difficult to adjust if they're not corroded/rusted.

Edit: talked with EBMM and they're sending new saddles/screws as replacements. Thanks @bdplaid for clearing up what is most likely the issue here.

You're most welcome, and good luck. Isn't EBMM awesome?

 

[bdplaid]

Very bad practice to use the truss rod to adjust action. Truss rod=relief. Do your action from neck angle and bridge.

Well, it does matter if there is too much or not enough relief after a string change to another gauge or brand. And seasonal changes. Truss rods can get stuck over time if they are never "exercised." They're not like something religious or mystical that can never be adjusted.

 

[Paulabass]

Well, it does matter if there is too much or not enough relief after a string change to another gauge or brand. And seasonal changes. Truss rods can get stuck over time if they are never "exercised." They're not like something religious or mystical that can never be adjusted.

Wow! Did we cross wires there. Truss rods are used for setting relief. Sometimes once and sometimes weekly. I've read and heard from lots of people that to lower action use the truss rod, and THAT part is wrong.

 

[Briton]

Truss rod adjustment is for neck relief to give a slight up bow to the neck. To lower your action just use the saddles. It is good practice to crank the truss rod a quarter of a turn then back a quarter of a turn to its original setting at least once a year to eliminate the future possibility of the truss rod becoming seized.

 

[bdplaid]

Yes, they didn't make me jump through hoops at all. I described the issue and they said, "yep, let's see if some new saddles and screws will solve the problem."

They also make some fantastic instruments that are pretty much set up right out of the box. I owned two Old Smoothies. I foolishly sold both. The second one went to a local music shop. I came to find out, coincidentally, that a co-worker of mine bought that second bass. Absence made my heart grow fonder and I reached out to him recently to see how he was coming along with it. He told me that he hadn't played it much since he got it. I offered to buy it back and here I am. Never should've gotten rid of it in the first place, especially since my main gig is a funk band!

Awesome!

 

[bdplaid]

Wow! Did we cross wires there. Truss rods are used for setting relief. Sometimes once and sometimes weekly. I've read and heard from lots of people that to lower action use the truss rod, and THAT part is wrong.

I'm not sure I get you, because straightening the neck by removing relief is one way to lower an action. It's one part of a complete setup. I like a neck that's pretty straight with little relief and set up my bass that way, adjusting tilt, saddles, etc all to work together.

 

[Briton]

I'm not sure I get you, because straightening the neck by removing relief is one way to lower an action. It's one part of a complete setup. I like a neck that's pretty straight with little relief and set up my bass that way, adjusting tilt, saddles, etc all to work together.

Adjusting the truss rod to lower the action would be the wrong way to go about it. Adjusting the saddles and if they are bottomed out adding a shim are the proper ways to lower the action.

 

[bdplaid]

Not turn this into an argument about setup, it's truly a balancing act among all the factors.

 

[Briton]

I am not trying to cause an argument but I think it is only right to correct misinformation. If you remove neck relief you are either going to end up with a straight neck or a neck with back bow which actually raises the action which would be the exact opposite of low action.

 

[bdplaid]

You are like a dog with a bone...

I use some relief but less than the factory usually says. I level my frets, too, making it easier to use less relief. No one is arguing for back bow, which makes an instrument unplayable.

IMO you guys are making more out if it than I said.

Here's my point: Just adjusting one thing will not necessarily give one an optimal action. And acceptable action/playability are determined by the player himself.

To only adjust the saddles without checking the relief may not give you what you are after.
If the neck pitch is off the saddles will never fix a high action.
If the neck relief is too much saddle adjustment will never make the action as low as possible.

See what I did there? They interact.

Don't be afraid to turn the truss rod. If you go too far and it's too straight for your setup or has back bow, ease it back. If you put in too much your strings will be high and you'll never get a low action - although fret buzz will diminish or disappear. For an example of high neck relief, play pretty much any bass in GC, and most basses as they come from the factory.

This really needs to be discussed on the setup forum, not here.