New F-Bass speaker cabinets!

[Tom7]

If you remove cabinet mounted casters, the port is against the floor, or within an inch, which effectively changes the port size, and does so differently from where the port size and shape is if you leave the casters on. The point being, that if your port is on the bottom, the floor or stage is going to react with the port unpredictably, that lack of predictability will change the tone of the cab, and could also be harmful for the drivers.

I think we have a communication problem. I was saying the casters are on a temporary trolly for the sole purpose of rolling the cabinet for those who don't want to lug it.

 

[ChrisPbass]

sub'd :-0

 

[Tom7]

I think we have a communication problem. I was saying the casters are on a temporary trolly for the sole purpose of rolling the cabinet for those who don't want to lug it.

My original post on the subject:

My wife and I were having conversations along these lines.

Have you guys seen those wheeled boards piano movers use to move pianos? We were wondering if it would be a good idea for Fbass to offer an accessory that is custom fit for the cabinet to slip into to make it roll. Then when you want to give (and if you don't want it to stay on wheels), you can lift it off the caster caddy and there you go.

 

[Bmorefoozler]

My original post on the subject:

What's confusing is that a cabinet with a bottom port, CAN'T be sat on the floor. The port needs at least one diameter of the port off the floor or it will act screwy. So if it has 4" diameter tube ports, it needs to be at least 4" clar of the floor, hence why having permanent casters would be a good idea.

Frankly, I think rotating the cabinet so that the port is on one of the sides would be better, and it would be easier to know to clear a wall by that same 1 diameter measure.

 

[will33]

You're not understanding how much effect it has on the cab tuning with the cab sitting on carpet vs. on it's feet on a hard floor vs. on wheels vs. layed/stacked on it's side.

If you design it to work "good enough" in all those configurations, it's not designed to work near as good as it could in any of them. The downfiring port is the root cause of this. The result of stuffing too much stuff in not enough box and just putting it wherever it physically fits.

 

[Tom7]

You're not understanding how much effect it has on the cab tuning with the cab sitting on carpet vs. on it's feet on a hard floor vs. on wheels vs. layed/stacked on it's side.

If you design it to work "good enough" in all those configurations, it's not designed to work near as good as it could in any of them. The downfiring port is the root cause of this. The result of stuffing too much stuff in not enough box and just putting it wherever it physically fits.

Who isn't understanding?

 

[kraigo]

I don't understand the bias against strap handles.

I'm 60 years old with arthritis in both knees and my lower back. I put single side-mounted strap handles on both of my fEARful 12/6s (a tad under 40lbs. each) and have no problem carrying them like suitcases.

My thing against strap handles is that I live in Minnesota and in the winter I don't want to take off my mittens to handle the cab. Strap handles get stiff when they're cold. They're basically no handle at all to me in the winter.

KO

 

[Tom7]

My thing against strap handles is that I live in Minnesota and in the winter I don't want to take off my mittens to handle the cab. Strap handles get stiff when they're cold. They're basically no handle at all to me in the winter.

KO

From Alaska... I'm not thrilled about the plastic handles, but not concerned either.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Building an instrument is not building a speaker.

The guy is insinuating magnet material itself affects tone.

doesnt it?
IME neo/alnico and ceramic magnet speakers or pickups do have tonal differences.

 

[Randyt]

I have a dozen of these little dollies i take with me to every gig...so easy to roll stuff around.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Tom7]

I have a dozen of these little dollies i take with me to every gig...so easy to roll stuff around.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Cool. Thanks for pointing that out to us.

 

[Tom7]

Here's a question for everyone.

I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night so what do I know, but I do own multiple, high-end surround systems, and I think all of them have down firing speakers for lows. Are they all flawed designs as well?

I certainly haven't seen any caveats for hardwood floors or carpets from their manufacturers.

I can't help but think that there must be some reason why so many engineers with a lot more education on this topic than me think it's a good idea. In fact, a quick search shows that there are a lot of manufacturers who make down-firing speakers, including:

Altec Lansing
Denon
Klipsch
Yamaha
Pioneer
JBL
Boston Acoustics
Logitech
Harmon Kardon
Panosonic
Canton
​

Unless someone can explain to me that they are all wrong, or that their thinking cannot be applied to a bass cabinet, then I'm going to keep my mind open to the possibility that these might actually be great cabinets -- even though the handle is only plastic.

We all know that lows are "omnidirectional" and humans cannot distinguish the direction lows come from (that comes from the speakers serving the higher frequencies). It does seem to me that the distances from the speaker to the floor, if it varies, might well matter. It also seems to me that if the floor is carpeted, that will affect the air being moved.

But it's not clear to me it will affect the tone, especially given that frequencies 250 Hz and under are "omnidirectional" and are somewhat felt as much as heard. The distinguishing sound, including where it comes from and what it really sounds like, comes from the speakers serving the higher frequencies.

I don't know; I think the speakers could still be quite great even with sound ported to the floor.

 

[seamonkey]

down firing subs have feet that stands them off the floor in a calculated distance.
Carpeting or bare floors doesn't matter for frequencies subs put out.

F-Bass needs to publish measurements, while their cab is sitting in the position they expect people to use them at. They could spend a few minutes and publish some measurements. Or it's going to be ear testimony - which doesn't account for much accuracy.

 

[MuthaFunk]

Here's a question for everyone.

I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night so what do I know, but I do own multiple, high-end surround systems, and I think all of them have down firing speakers for lows. Are they all flawed designs as well?

I certainly haven't seen any caveats for hardwood floors or carpets from their manufacturers.

I can't help but think that there must be some reason why so many engineers with a lot more education on this topic than me think it's a good idea. In fact, a quick search shows that there are a lot of manufacturers who make down-firing speakers, including:

Altec Lansing
Denon
Klipsch
Yamaha
Pioneer
JBL
Boston Acoustics
Logitech
Harmon Kardon
Panosonic
Canton
​

Unless someone can explain to me that they are all wrong, or that their thinking cannot be applied to a bass cabinet, then I'm going to keep my mind open to the possibility that these might actually be great cabinets -- even though the handle is only plastic.

We all know that lows are "omnidirectional" and humans cannot distinguish the direction lows come from (that comes from the speakers serving the higher frequencies). It does seem to me that the distances from the speaker to the floor, if it varies, might well matter. It also seems to me that if the floor is carpeted, that will affect the air being moved.

But it's not clear to me it will affect the tone, especially given that frequencies 250 Hz and under are "omnidirectional" and are somewhat felt as much as heard. The distinguishing sound, including where it comes from and what it really sounds like, comes from the speakers serving the higher frequencies.

I don't know; I think the speakers could still be quite great even with sound ported to the floor.

The speaker firing at the floor and a port at the floor are two different things. There is a program that some of us use to model speaker responses in various cabinet designs called WinISD. You can get dramatically different frequency or "tone" results when one begins to change the port dimensions. The floor and the dimensions of the bottom of the cab is effectively becoming an extension of the bottom port vs when it's on it's side. There's no-one saying it will sound bad but rather offer different sound options for the user depending on how they orient the cab. The potential to have a different sound depending on the floor seems to be a negative for some people. Personally, I've found all my cabs have sounded different depending on what kind of floor or stage they're on. There's no complete consistency with mobile bass rigs.

 

[Tom7]

down firing subs have feet that stands them off the floor in a calculated distance.
Carpeting or bare floors doesn't matter for frequencies subs put out.

F-Bass needs to publish measurements, while their cab is sitting in the position they expect people to use them at. They could spend a few minutes and publish some measurements. Or it's going to be ear testimony - which doesn't account for much accuracy.

"Ear testimony." I liked that. I wondered if the Fbass cabinet has little feet. Hopefully we'll get more photos and specs on them before long.

The speaker firing at the floor and a port at the floor are two different things. There is a program that some of us use to model speaker responses in various cabinet designs called WinISD. You can get dramatically different frequency or "tone" results when one begins to change the port dimensions. The floor and the dimensions of the bottom of the cab is effectively becoming an extension of the bottom port vs when it's on it's side. There's no-one saying it will sound bad but rather offer different sound options for the user depending on how they orient the cab. The potential to have a different sound depending on the floor seems to be a negative for some people. Personally, I've found all my cabs have sounded different depending on what kind of floor or stage they're on. There's no complete consistency with mobile bass rigs.

You obviously DID sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. Thanks. I've had that experience with cabs sounding different too, and have even lifted them off the floor at times -- once on two chairs.

It appears that we just need questions answered to understand the offering better.

 

[BurningSkies]

I think we have a communication problem. I was saying the casters are on a temporary trolly for the sole purpose of rolling the cabinet for those who don't want to lug it.

Yes we do. Go back and read Pieman's original post about casters. It's not in reference to making the cab easier to move, but to get it UP off the floor and create clearance that might solve the problem of porting directly into a stage or floor.

 

[Tom7]

Yes we do. Go back and read Pieman's original post about casters. It's not in reference to making the cab easier to move, but to get it UP off the floor and create clearance that might solve the problem of porting directly into a stage or floor.

I know. My point is the same: if the cabinet is designed to be placed on the floor, then it will be placed on the floor because it will be off the trolly.

 

[Tom7]

New news guys. I visited with someone who has seen the cabinets...

THEY HAVE RECESSED HANDLES. The recessed handles are on the top and bottom and they are meant for transpiration, for carrying the cabinet.

The plastic handles are for stacking them. You can pick the cabinet up by the plastic handle (if you wish) to stack onto another. There is a notch on the under side that the plastic handle fits into.

Also, the cabinets have FEET as well, like the subwoofers of our surround system.

 

[makohund]

That is one thing I wondered about... if there were feet, and if it was intentional/calculated to use the resulting space underneath as part of the port.

Don't know how well it'd work, if it can even be calculated reliably and accurately, or what the drawbacks might be even if it does work.

But the thought did cross my mind. Any gurus want to chime in on that, & school me a bit?

 

[KJung]

New news guys. I visited with someone who has seen the cabinets...

THEY HAVE RECESSED HANDLES. The recessed handles are on the top and bottom and they are meant for transpiration, for carrying the cabinet.

The plastic handles are for stacking them. You can pick the cabinet up by the plastic handle (if you wish) to stack onto another. There is a notch on the under side that the plastic handle fits into.

Also, the cabinets have FEET as well, like the subwoofers of our surround system.

Confusing thread. People talking about subwoofers with downfiring woofers, etc. has nothing to do with port placement.

Are people saying that the actual PORT is on the bottom of the cab? If so, that is strange. Kind of like putting a rear port 1/2" (assuming there are rubber feet on this box) from the wall, which is a no-no as far as I know. I guess they could greatly oversize the port to make up for the lack of distance from the floor.

Again, confusing thread, not sure if this is the case or not. Other than that, looks like yet another 210 with a tweeter. Lots of competition out there, especially given that it isn't a neo box.

Edit: If it is a passive radiator (i.e., a port alternative like used in the Walkabout cabs), then I guess it doesn't matter, since no air is being pushed out of the port.