new home practice rig: BLACKSTAR 20W

[René_Julien]

This is a sweet sounding amp. Perfectly suitable for bass. And through a JBL JRX 115 it's seem to produce more and clearer lowend then my GK1001RB-II/Hartke410XL rig (at home practice volume).

This amp is making my fretless basses sing so sweet and clear. I wouldn't know if this setup is gigworthy, but it's navelgazer's delight. I got both the Blackstar and JBL used.

The ISF (Infinity Shape Feature) is supposed to make your sound go from American to British.
On guitar clean and overdrive it goes from Fender to what I think should pass for Marshall... or it's a bit more Orange-yie.
Can't distinguish much difference on bass yet. Overall it seems to go from smooth sounding (American) to more grainy crunchy sounding (British).

On the overdrive channel, on bass, with lots of gain you have a great overdrive/distortion, very guitar-like... guitar simulation, but it still retains note definition on the lower notes on bass as well.

But I don't go for overdrive and lowend. I play fretless mostly an go for a clean mid-bumped sound.
Which this amp does like a champion.
With the master volume searching for the powertube breakup it sounds awesome. But I'm yet inexperienced with tube amps on bass.
The clean sound reminds me of Hiwatt a lot. Which is great.

The reverb is also very nice.

This amp is definately a keeper.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

see i was looking into getting a blackstar head and i wasnt to sure how it would sound

 

[René_Julien]

see i was looking into getting a blackstar head and i wasnt to sure how it would sound

I'm in tone heaven now.
But I should repeat that I have not much experience with tube amps (or at all for that matter) so I have no bass tube amp to compare it through. (I did play a Hiwatt and some Ampeg SVTs once, but those were quick run-throughs at stores, I never tested them properly.)


My GAS for a B-15 is fading away though.
Not saying this is better, but it's great for me at the moment, and for what I need it for. Home practice, no gig.

 

[Darkstrike]

Badass!

 

[René_Julien]

Badass!

And I'm going to use the second JBL I got to get the one I'm playing through off the ground. So it's at ear level.
And would look more badass.

 

[Darkstrike]

Sweet man! Sounds like a hell of a plan!

 

[BobOnBass]

René, sound samples would be highly appreciated!! Please???

If not possible, any chance you can tell a bit more about the volume level? I mean, could this do a bit of natural overdrive without disturbing the neighbours too much?

Thinking about getting a small tube head myself and those Blackstars shure look the bomb. Was leaning towards a VHT Special 6 but somehow they look a bit too flimsy and I don't mind spending a bit more.
I do like a bit of od so was thinking of that tiny 5 watt Blackstar. 20 Tube watts might just be a bit too much for myself but would love to hear what you think.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[René_Julien]

René, sound samples would be highly appreciated!! Please???

If not possible, any chance you can tell a bit more about the volume level? I mean, could this do a bit of natural overdrive without disturbing the neighbours too much?

Thinking about getting a small tube head myself and those Blackstars shure look the bomb. Was leaning towards a VHT Special 6 but somehow they look a bit too flimsy and I don't mind spending a bit more.
I do like a bit of od so was thinking of that tiny 5 watt Blackstar. 20 Tube watts might just be a bit too much for myself but would love to hear what you think.

Cheers, Bob.

I know I shouldn't have posted a thread like this without the capability to record it.
(I'm planning on getting a quality mic and PC equipment to record amps in the future.)
So sorry.


Yes, you can dial in overdrive different ways. With the clean channel volume control, fullout with the OD channel, or the way I like it (and you too I guess) clean channel, volume (gain) at 9 and master volume full open for that little bite.
It does not sound "fuzzy" on the poweramp breakup like most dedicated bass amps, but a bit more brighter and even brittle. That's the way I like it.
And that's why it reminds me of Hiwatt. Which is also bright and basicly a guitar amp.
But I'm no authority on Hiwatt.. or tube amps.

Just the sound I got in my head... I got 2 steps closer to that. Going to fiddle more with my tube compressor (TL Audio) in the effects loop for that cello like "bowed" sound and sustain. (I mostly play fretless.)

I live in a small appartment, and I think I need the 20 watts for practice. I choose a JBL monitor for it's headroom and clarity (at least in it's price range, it's just a JRX).
I fear 5 watts may be not enough to drive a decent monitor or bass cab for decent fundamentals. Though someone with experience with small tube amps in small room may correct me on that.

I guess I bought it for the same needs you have.

I looked what the cheapest guitar head was that had 20 to 50W of tube power, and from a brand I have faith in. Next to 333 Jet City this was the second cheapest (in my area).
So.. searching classifieds in this price range (300 to 600 €... guess that's the same amount in dollars) I stumbled on this used on in mint condition. I didn't hesitate and contacted the seller immediately.

I got to try it with my bass cab though, see what that gives. (Hartke 410XL) But I don't have a proper speaker cable for that right now.

I feel playing through the monitor the sound doesn't carry as much as my 4x10 cab... not to disturb neighbours.
I'm not a player that lusts for lots of lowend. More low mids, which this JBL can deliver for me. And it's very clear.

I need to fiddle with it some more (after my fingers aren't sore anymore ) but after on hour of playing I figured out how to get the tube power amp to break up, at reasonable volume.
Reasonable volume for me is when the glasses stop ringing in my kitchen cabinets. (That's not very metal though.)

 

[René_Julien]

Better?

 

[BobOnBass]

Well, that sounds just about perfect! I totally dig what you say regarding the brighter type of OD. That is exactly what I'm looking for. To keep it local , a bit a la Monsieur Paul (or Ruben for that matter) from Triggerfinger I suppose. Pointy, sharp and gritty overdrive.

But just to be sure, I can get some bite out of this on a modest practice-witout-a-band-at-home level without breaking stuff, right? The 20 watts would be much more versatile than the 5 with a band, having this as a dedicated miked OD amp. The only thing that made me reject it a while ago was the lack of a switch to use only half the watts. That seems a popular feature with these small amps. You think that could be added by an amp guy later?

Cheers! B.

 

[René_Julien]

Well, that sounds just about perfect! I totally dig what you say regarding the brighter type of OD. That is exactly what I'm looking for. To keep it local , a bit a la Monsieur Paul (or Ruben for that matter) from Triggerfinger I suppose. Pointy, sharp and gritty overdrive.

But just to be sure, I can get some bite out of this on a modest practice-witout-a-band-at-home level without breaking stuff, right? The 20 watts would be much more versatile than the 5 with a band, having this as a dedicated miked OD amp. The only thing that made me reject it a while ago was the lack of a switch to use only half the watts. That seems a popular feature with these small amps. You think that could be added by an amp guy later?

Cheers! B.

LOL, I just saw in your profile you have a Hiwatt 200.... you're gonna love this Blackstar if you get one.

5 watt versus 20 watt... hmmm suppose I could connect my Gretsch 5W guitamp (same as a Fender Champ) with a basscab to test it out.
But that 5W guitaramp is barely loud enough as a guitaramp with my electric guitar in my appartment (even at fullout overdrive). So I doubt it would be enough for bass.

I tested the Blackstar at full throttle in my small appartment. Everything shakes (because of the lowend, not distorted noise), but no collateral damage so far.
At clean settings with the maste volume way up: not much rattling of my kitchen wares, though satisfying lowend and pleasantly loud (and clean).


Sorry, I know I'm Belgian but I don't know much about Triggerfinger and never paid any attention to their sound.
Perhaps a link with what your after.


I was also looking for that Marshall fuzzy poweramp overdrive. I'm a big fan of Lemmy.
So far I haven't found that tone in this amp (a tone you definately are not after I assume), but I need to explore it more.


"modest practice-witout-a-band-at-home level without breaking stuff"
That's what I got this for. And so far so fine.

 

[BobOnBass]

Thanks so much for posting about this amp! I was literally days, if not hours away from ordering the VHT 5 watt thing but your comments make me see that wouldn't have been the right thing for me. You saved me from disapointment!

I so envy you Belgiums... No government and some of the best music ever.

YouTube - triggerfinger short term memory love
YouTube - first taste ttiggerfinger Werchter 09

Check out the bass on the first link, 20 seconds into the song. That comes close to what I like for a basic dirty sound. I think he uses Hiwatt mostly and assume some pedal or other for extra grit. Or maybe not, just cranked tubes, they do play wicked loud.

Is that type of grit do-able?

Thanks again, Bob.

 

[2400]

Mr. Paul's sound is the HiWatt mostly, yeah. I've always thought that his sound was also highly dependent on those 60's London City 4x12 cabs he sometimes uses. They're supposedly loaded with 250W Eminence speakers (no model included in the rumors). Apparently those (guitar) cabs work great for bass.

EDIT: Great to know 20 watts of tube works great for apartment bass amps!

 

[René_Julien]

Thanks so much for posting about this amp! I was literally days, if not hours away from ordering the VHT 5 watt thing but your comments make me see that wouldn't have been the right thing for me. You saved me from disapointment!

I so envy you Belgiums... No government and some of the best music ever.

YouTube - triggerfinger short term memory love
YouTube - first taste ttiggerfinger Werchter 09

Check out the bass on the first link, 20 seconds into the song. That comes close to what I like for a basic dirty sound. I think he uses Hiwatt mostly and assume some pedal or other for extra grit. Or maybe not, just cranked tubes, they do play wicked loud.

Is that type of grit do-able?

Thanks again, Bob.

Strange, that's the first time I hear someone praise the Belgian music scene.
The only Belgian artist I'm proud of is Toots Tielemans.
And Adolphe Sax deserves a mention.

Actually I like Triggerfinger. They're a great talented band. I just never payed attention to them. I'm more into classical music and metal.


Okay I tried to dial in such kind of overdrive. To be honest it wasn't that succesfull.
I had to roll off the tone control to completely down or 1/4 open (traditional style bass). You can't get that kind of overdrive on the clean channel with the poweramp distorting. So overdrive channel. After fiddling I got a lot of different textures of overdrive, I had to venture into darker sounds than I usually use myself. I almost had it tonally (the sound in the first clip), but the overdrive harmonics were different. I came to the edge of sounding fuzzy, but you only fuzz if you really dig in. Overall this is a smooth sounding amp when overdriven. And what I hear in that YT video is more "gritty", "grainy" or "throathy", if you understand what I mean.
If that's Hiwatt than I must admit I'm not as familiar with Hiwatt as I claimed to be. Or at least not overdriven Hiwatt.
The Blackstar goes from smooth (sorry if I overuse this word ) tube breakup drive to suddenly fuzzed farting out (only if you dig in too deep, easy controllable).

But, I'm only me and not experienced at dialing in drive on a tube amp, or overdrive in general. My personal taste is a clean sound with a bit of character.

Mr. Paul's sound is the HiWatt mostly, yeah. I've always thought that his sound was also highly dependent on those 60's London City 4x12 cabs he sometimes uses. They're supposedly loaded with 250W Eminence speakers (no model included in the rumors). Apparently those (guitar) cabs work great for bass.

Can that have to do why it sounds so "throathy"?




After researching overdrive textures Bob, I started dialing in sounds for myself again. Man, amazing. I never had my fretless mwah'ing like this. And it doesn't sound like a cow lowing. Overall the sound is a little on the bright side.


Bob, this amp may or may not be capable of the sound you're after. But at it's price point you get a decent 20W tube amp that is fun to practice one.
And after further evaluation, yes again, you'll need 20W to sound decent for bass.


Sorry, I should get gear to make soundclips, and learn how to use it. And learn how to play.
Well, this amp sure motivates me to practice more, so that's a plus.

 

[BobOnBass]

Toots? Are you kidding? I know he gets enormous praise but when you say Belgium I say Brel, TC Matic (Arno solo!!), dEUS, Zita Swoon and most certainly Soulwax (and 2 many dj's!), more recently the mighty Triggerfinger and Selah Sue.
All artists with a distinct voice of their own and that's quite something in my book.

It sounds as if I need to try that Blackstar myself. I mean, it's quite a bit more expensive than the VHT thingies. Those are so cheap, I'd order those on cheese youtube reviews alone.

I'm gonna see what I can find on there regarding low wattage tube amps.

Exciting stuff this!

 

[René_Julien]

Toots? Are you kidding? I know he gets enormous praise but when you say Belgium I say Brel, TC Matic (Arno solo!!), dEUS, Zita Swoon and most certainly Soulwax (and 2 many dj's!), more recently the mighty Triggerfinger and Selah Sue.
All artists with a distinct voice of their own and that's quite something in my book.

It sounds as if I need to try that Blackstar myself. I mean, it's quite a bit more expensive than the VHT thingies. Those are so cheap, I'd order those on cheese youtube reviews alone.

I'm gonna see what I can find on there regarding low wattage tube amps.

Exciting stuff this!

Oh yeah, Arno rulez. I strongly agree with you on that. I saw him many times live. I didn't knew he was that famous abroad. Brel is fantastic too.

I guess you also like Das Pop?
What about Admiral Freebie? I like his work a lot.

I was never one for this alternative rock scene. But if you're into that style of music, Belgium is definately the place.
That's why Muse was considered mainstream around here around 2000 while they were not so popular anywhere else.


Isn't it always? A prophet is never praised in his own country.


For an amp, look around used like I did.
I was also eyeing a Marshall JTM-45 clone, and other guitar heads in the the 20 - 50W power range.
But it seems there aren't much low powered heads around here in local classifieds. Tube guitar combos, a lot of them.
Or they were vintage guitar heads that cost way to much.

This Blackstar fitted all my requirements.
I do however want something Marshall-ish too.
I'm studying up on audio electronics. Maybe I'll try a DIY Marshall 1992 if I'm up to it.

Definately fun stuff.

 

[2400]

Too bad Thomann doesn't stock the Bugera 1960 anymore, I'd have loved to try that. DIY options are so expensive in Belgium.

And yes, the music scene is fantastic here. I suppose I'm a little different from you, René, as I am into the whole alternative scene going on here.

Creature With The Atom Brain, Wallace Vanborn, Hickey Underworld, Millionaire, Ghinzu... fantastic bands!

Belgium: give it a try, guys! There's no formal government but we play guitars?

 

[René_Julien]

Too bad Thomann doesn't stock the Bugera 1960 anymore, I'd have loved to try that. DIY options are so expensive in Belgium.

And yes, the music scene is fantastic here. I suppose I'm a little different from you, René, as I am into the whole alternative scene going on here.

Creature With The Atom Brain, Wallace Vanborn, Hickey Underworld, Millionaire, Ghinzu... fantastic bands!

Belgium: give it a try, guys! There's no formal government but we play guitars?

I used to be into the alternative rock scene in the 90s... I grew out of it.

Oh, and The Blackbox Revelation, I like those guys very much.
I like what they are doing with just guitar and drum, no bass.

I also adore Gorki, De Mens and De Kreuners. And Katastroof and Willem Vermandere and all those folk acts in dutch.
But I absolutely hate Scala.


Yes, I came across them Bugera amps... never considered them, I prefer Blackstar as a brand.

Dammit, now I'm gassing for the 200W head Blackstar has, imagine that through a decent bass cab, like a Genz Benz Uber 410 I recently tried out.


DIY isn't that expensive. I have many source to get parts, I have the tools, I'm handy with electronics... I just never did something with audio electronics, I'm in the automotive business.
And I need to find the time.

 

[BobOnBass]

I just love when these stuff-threads turn into music-threads!
It's all about the music baby!!!!

Anyhow, I ran through this other thread;
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/50w-100w-valve-owners-thread-733582/
in search of other cool, small tube amps. A couple of nice ones although the bulk of it is a lot more powerfull.

I would love to run into a used 20 watt Marshall but that's not going to happen over here in Switzerland. Seriously, you guys are complaining but I'm sure it is worse here... The second hand market over here is about as exciting as a Norah Jones album. Ok, that last ones is a pretty decent cd at times but still...

Just stumbled upon this one at Thomann, will try to find a review somewhere, see if it's any good.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/50w-100w-valve-owners-thread-733582/

Later, B.

 

[René_Julien]

I just love when these stuff-threads turn into music-threads!
It's all about the music baby!!!!

Anyhow, I ran through this other thread;
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/50w-100w-valve-owners-thread-733582/
in search of other cool, small tube amps. A couple of nice ones although the bulk of it is a lot more powerfull.

I would love to run into a used 20 watt Marshall but that's not going to happen over here in Switzerland. Seriously, you guys are complaining but I'm sure it is worse here... The second hand market over here is about as exciting as a Norah Jones album. Ok, that last ones is a pretty decent cd at times but still...

Just stumbled upon this one at Thomann, will try to find a review somewhere, see if it's any good.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/50w-100w-valve-owners-thread-733582/

Later, B.

LOL, this is the first time I see the Thomann site in dutch version.
The BE version is in English.

That seems like a cool amp. Didn't came across that one in my search.
Whatever, I'm sure my Blackstar is way better.

Just kidding, that seems like an interesting amp. And great price.
I'm not familiar with Traynor, but people around this forum seem to be fond of them.
6V6 poweramp, that's got to be sweet. I guess if you're into Fender guitaramps.
15W might be ideal.
Keep me updated on what you finally get.


My idea of running through a monitor might not be a good one. It suddenly dawned on me again that I don't like tweeters.
Maybe trading in my hartke 4x10 for 2 decent 1x15 cabs. One to use with the Blackstar and two for a fullstack with my Gallien Krueger, if I ever gig again.


Now, back on track with the derail...
Bob, The Blackbox Revelation, do you know them. It's my opinion that they are the best (succesful) Belgian band these days. (Triggerfinger is also good. )