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New IEM question, haven't heard this one before...

steveksux

steveksux

Mar 23, 2005
4,923
332
67
Detroit area, Troy, MI
#1
So I'm with a new band, they run sound from the stage, no soundman. They're putting everything in the pa, vocals, instruments, drums. I have new IEMs. I typically run one channel from the mains, and one from my bass to blend them together.

Here's my question. The problem mixing sound from the stage is it sounds so different on stage than in front of the mains.

So with me running the mains into the IEMs, for all intents and purposes, I'm out in the crowd and have a pretty good reference with which to mix the band. Won't be perfect, but good for everything except the bass. If I turn my bass channel down in the IEMs and rely on what I'm feeding to the PA it should be pretty good for that too.

Tried it last night and recorded the gig. I think it sounded pretty good. I was fiddling with keys/guitar levels on solos and some songs, there was a tendency to compete with vocals.

Sound like a feasible plan? Its an added bonus to using IEMs if so.

ETA: During sound check, I listened from the audience without the IEMs, then put them in to verify it still sounded about the same as far as balance goes. Obviously this requires people to keep a handle on their stage volume to work as well. I was actually turning the guitarist UP most of the night for solos, he's very good about volume. Keys tended to be too loud. I may bump his monitor send up a bit so he doesn't feel the need to creep the volume up throughout the night.

Randy
 
#4
The other thing you don't get in the IEMs is whatever sound is coming off the stage. The drums or guitar may not be very loud in the FOH signal, but may be loud from the stage. If you added a wireless for your bass rig you could actually walk out in front during sound check and hear how much stage volume is making it to the house.
 
#5
Never_grew_up said:
The other thing you don't get in the IEMs is whatever sound is coming off the stage. The drums or guitar may not be very loud in the FOH signal, but may be loud from the stage. If you added a wireless for your bass rig you could actually walk out in front during sound check and hear how much stage volume is making it to the house.
Click to expand...

I did that without the IEMs in, then put them in to see if there was significant difference, there wasn't any. Stage volume tends to not be a problem with these guys. But its definitely a potential problem if they do start turning up over the course of the night. I caught the keyboard turning up during the night, I added more keys in the monitor to satisfy the craving, and brought him back down a bit on the mains.

Agreed it would be much better/more reliable if they were on IEMs also, no stage amps.

The next most likely problem is mixing the bass signal. If the subs aren't adjusted properly the signal in my ear won't reflect the low end in the crowd either.
 
#6
If the question is, "can I assume that the mix in my IEM sounds the same as what the audience is hearing," the answer is, "no". Every different room can change how it sounds to the audience, even though what it sounds like in your IEM always stays the same.
 
#7
My band rolls the exact same way as the OP's... all of our instruments and vocal mics are wireless so every now and then one of us will wander out and pull out our IEMs for half a song or whatever and get a listen for what the audience is hearing... then adjust accordingly. It's not optimal but about the best you can do absent a proper FOH engineer.

As a performer, I always get very nervous when there's a sound guy out there and he's mixing most of the show with earphones on. What he's hearing through his cans can be significantly different from the ambient FOH sound. I've played shows where the FOH guy has headphones on most of the show and I hear afterwards from friends in the crowd that the sound was garbage.
 
#8
Don't worry about the foh mix and you iem mix sounding the same. Set them both for thier intended purpose. FOH should be the right balance for the audience,IEM mix should be for your personal mix so you can hear what you need to hear.
 
#9
StuartV said:
If the question is, "can I assume that the mix in my IEM sounds the same as what the audience is hearing," the answer is, "no". Every different room can change how it sounds to the audience, even though what it sounds like in your IEM always stays the same.
Click to expand...
That's why I went out in front first without IEMs in, then pop them in to see what they sound like, make sure they're similar, see what the IEMs are going to sound like when the PA sounds good.

Of course its not going to be the same. Its a hell of a lot closer than mixing from stage without them, going off of the floor monitors, or an occasional patrol out front with the wireless and flying blind.

Randy
 
#10
jaywa said:
As a performer, I always get very nervous when there's a sound guy out there and he's mixing most of the show with earphones on. What he's hearing through his cans can be significantly different from the ambient FOH sound. I've played shows where the FOH guy has headphones on most of the show and I hear afterwards from friends in the crowd that the sound was garbage.
Click to expand...

Possibilities:

FOH is in a bad place, and the phones are more like what the folks in the good seats are hearing (especially FX).

The band is so loud, the headphones are for ear protection.

S/He's a hack.
 

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