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Double Bass New jazz bass video tutorial series

#141
Great vid as always DURRL. It would help initiates at some point if you can identify recordings where this is employed. RB's Superbass cd's come to mind. I'd say Red, but he was doing it in 5ths tuning.

Question: are closed voicings really that muddy? I've been messing with double stops on 3rds, 5ths, and other voicings to the point where it's not so bad. Worked on a Slam transcription a while back and he used a 5th pretty effectively - to the point where it's clear.

Certainly it's hard to hear at half position but somewhere in the middle in the neck isn't so bad.
 
#142
Marc Piane said:
What I've found is sometimes students have a harder time hearing intervals in the lower range of the bass too. One exercise I do is to have them, arco and using the A drone and the adjacent string, is go up the D string chromatically and really hear what the different intervals SOUND and FEEL like. The beats make the body of the bass go crazy. Wash-rinse-repeat on the D string. Doing it arco really lets you hear when it pops in. Then try it pizz.
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Agree. I've found that the "sweet spot" of the more dissonant intervals is really more of a "notch" or an "indent" in the continuum. I do something similar to what your describe above with my students: put on a drone pretty loud, then have them sing the major and minor 7ths directly into the speaker. What they discover is that while the sound of these intervals never really becomes "calm" like perfect intervals, there is a spot where they are "calmer" than anywhere else (i.e. - if you go higher the beats go faster, also if you go lower the beats go faster). That, for me, is the "sweet spot" for every interval. Also, as you mention, the beats are something that can be felt through the bass wherever the body touches it, which can help with what I sometimes think of as "visceral intonation", or feeling when you're in tune when you may be having trouble hearing yourself. But that's another subject...


hdiddy said:
Great vid as always DURRL. It would help initiates at some point if you can identify recordings where this is employed. RB's Superbass cd's come to mind. I'd say Red, but he was doing it in 5ths tuning.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll try to think of some, but feel free to chime in if you think of any.

Question: are closed voicings really that muddy? I've been messing with double stops on 3rds, 5ths, and other voicings to the point where it's not so bad. Worked on a Slam transcription a while back and he used a 5th pretty effectively - to the point where it's clear.

Certainly it's hard to hear at half position but somewhere in the middle in the neck isn't so bad.
Click to expand...

The 7ths are close position, and I use them all the way down to about the C-D range, but I know what you mean. I think the smaller an interval is, the higher up on the bass it has to be in order to speak clearly (and of course, it has to be in tune as well). Perfect intervals like the 5th are usable just about anywhere. In the end, I guess it all comes down to taste.
 
#144
Chris Fitzgerald said:
The 7ths are close position, and I use them all the way down to about the C-D range, but I know what you mean. I think the smaller an interval is, the higher up on the bass it has to be in order to speak clearly (and of course, it has to be in tune as well). Perfect intervals like the 5th are usable just about anywhere. In the end, I guess it all comes down to taste.
Click to expand...
RE: Smaller intervals, that make sense. I should disclose that I'm making an attempt at the stick o' pain. It's easier to intonate those smaller intervals with arco and I'm trying to approach it in a way that I hear fiddlers/violinists do it. With the bow, the open position voicings don't work so well with a string in the way.

I should write up an arrangement for arco double stops with the bow as an etude.

An extra question: I'm a recovering guitarist so I'm moderately familiar with using shell voicings, esp in doing chord subs and creating a chord melody using them. Have you found a way to use the same 7ths and 10th chord "shapes" and applied them to find other voicings where the root isn't expressed? I dabbled with it in the past but it's a bit beyond me, at least to this point in my playing. Will this be covered in part 2?
 
#145
Emoody said:
Here, with the agreement of Chris, the shell-voicing chorus of "Fly Me To The Moon" as played on his new tutorial.
Have fun ;)
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Thanks, Eugene. I was going to do that, but you just saved me a bunch of time. :)

hdiddy said:
RE: Smaller intervals, that make sense. I should disclose that I'm making an attempt at the stick o' pain. It's easier to intonate those smaller intervals with arco and I'm trying to approach it in a way that I hear fiddlers/violinists do it. With the bow, the open position voicings don't work so well with a string in the way.

I should write up an arrangement for arco double stops with the bow as an etude.

An extra question: I'm a recovering guitarist so I'm moderately familiar with using shell voicings, esp in doing chord subs and creating a chord melody using them. Have you found a way to use the same 7ths and 10th chord "shapes" and applied them to find other voicings where the root isn't expressed? I dabbled with it in the past but it's a bit beyond me, at least to this point in my playing. Will this be covered in part 2?
Click to expand...

Not exactly. If I analyze the chorus from the video that Emoody transcribed, even the passing chords and tritone subs are all rooted. I think that (for me, at least) the rooted voicings sound clearest on the bass. When soloing, I'll sometimes play double stops of smaller intervals - everything from a unison to sixths - but i think of those as simply melodic embellishments and no longer "shell voicings" or really any kind of voicings; like you, I'm a recovering guitarist and also a recovering pianist, and lots of times on both instruments it's common to just use 6ths or 3rds in diatonic parallel motion...which i think of as a different animal from a specific voicing that is meant to signify a harmony.

Part 2 of this video is going to be about the system of voice leading that can be applied to 10ths and 7ths to tie entire progressions or even choruses together so they can be played with as little physical motion as possible from one chord to the next.
 
#146
Sorry, I deleted my comment about all the other stuff from my previous post cuz I thought Emoody composed his thing, not just transcribed it.

Ok, so yeah, I'm probably getting beyond the intent of your vid - you're right, it's no longer a shell voicing at that point. I'll look into parallel motion and that sort of thing. I need to understand counterpoint better anyway.
 
#147
I really rarely use actual double stops in my own playing. I've never been able to get them to fit into the flow naturally. That said I will often use 10ths or 7ths or 9ths in my walking lines. I find a similar effect/affect but it fits my "concept" better.

I only say that because I think the same concepts of voice leading apply to single note lines.
 
#149
hdiddy said:
Nice and simple example of NHOP doing 10ths/7ths for Joe Pass. You see him doing it clearly for the first solo chorus for Tricotism.
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Nice! And he's using the 2-4 fingering for the most part....and making it look easy, as usual.

Marc Piane said:
I really rarely use actual double stops in my own playing. I've never been able to get them to fit into the flow naturally. That said I will often use 10ths or 7ths or 9ths in my walking lines. I find a similar effect/affect but it fits my "concept" better.
Click to expand...

I used to be in the same boat until i started playing this regular trio gig at the Nachbar with just sax, bass, and drums. In that setting, they seemed a natural fit for ballads, then once i wasn't to self conscious about intonation to play them in public, I'd start using them as a way to provide some variety in accompanying textures. At this part in that setting, it's just a part of the overall language.

I will say, though, that when playing them alongside a guitarist or pianist in that kind of setting, they'd better be *dead on* in tune, or it's best not to use them at all.
 
#151
Due to circumstances beyond my control and after nearly 30 years of playing the trumpet, I have moved almost exclusively to bass. I have a long, long way to go, but it is the effort taken by people like Mr Fitzgerald shown in these videos that reinforce my decision, and make looking at the trumpet in the corner less painful. Thank you Sir!
 
#152
Chris

Thanks for sharing this wonderful series of videos, I was watching your video on the left hand technique.. and I am a beginner I being tacking classes for a month but I am aware about using my big muscle groups instead finger or thumb pressure to press the finger board… being said that I found that is very hard to play this way.. I cant balance my bass (I play in upright position),it feels like the bass is going to fall towards me every time that I release my thump.


What I am may be doing wrong? May be I have to incline the bass forward?
 
#153
rgarcia26 said:
Chris

Thanks for sharing this wonderful series of videos, I was watching your video on the left hand technique.. and I am a beginner I being tacking classes for a month but I am aware about using my big muscle groups instead finger or thumb pressure to press the finger board… being said that I found that is very hard to play this way.. I cant balance my bass (I play in upright position),it feels like the bass is going to fall towards me every time that I release my thump.


What I am may be doing wrong? May be I have to incline the bass forward?
Click to expand...

Thanks! As for the standing/seated part, I tried to answer this question earlier in the thread:

Chris Fitzgerald said:
Spots - this is something that every bassist must come to terms with in their own way. This tipping reaction you describe is one of the main reasons I play seated; by doing so, the bass is secured against my body and I can apply as much force as I wish to it without it moving. I even sit on a slightly unusual height of stool (24" rather than the usual 29") because I like the angle and leverage it gives me. Other players cope in different ways. Some players like my esteemed colleagues Rufus Reid and Lynn Seaton use an angled endpin to position the bass against their bodies. Other players employ the more vertical "Gary Karr-like" position. This is a puzzle that each player will have to solve in the way that suits their needs.

I would recommend that anyone who has not done so spend a little time trying this weighted approach to the left hand while sitting down so that the bass cannot move away from the force. I have several students who prefer to stand, but both have spent some time sitting and have found their own workarounds for getting plenty of pressure on the string without moving the bass away as a result. One recent graduate has found a hybrid way of standing in which he wedges the edge of the bass into his hip which keeps it secure. I couldn't get it to work, but it sure works for him!
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If you play standing, you may not be able to truly play without the thumb at all; that said, you can still seek to minimize the use of the thumb for squeezing. On the few occasions where I am forced to play standing, I focus on just locking the thumb out and using it to stop the bass from moving while still trying to direct downforce from the left arm into the fingerboard.
 
#154
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Thanks! As for the standing/seated part, I tried to answer this question earlier in the thread:



If you play standing, you may not be able to truly play without the thumb at all; that said, you can still seek to minimize the use of the thumb for squeezing. On the few occasions where I am forced to play standing, I focus on just locking the thumb out and using it to stop the bass from moving while still trying to direct downforce from the left arm into the fingerboard.
Click to expand...


Thanks again very detailed video great asset
 
#157
The fifth video is up: Invalid Link Removed

It's a continuation of the last, and covers the topic of voice leading and range for shell voicings. It's basically a system for putting them into any progression and have them voice lead smoothly. Since I was trying to be thorough it's pretty lengthy like the last one, so I indexed it so that it can be searched topically:

0:00 "Fly Me To The Moon" shell voicing excerpt and topic introduction
1:53 Spoken introduction
4:09 Voicing types
7:05 Voice leading guidelines
16:07 Voicing range and playing example
26:11 Example of notated progression
29:21 Summary
30:28 Shell voicing excerpt with solo and Outtro

Back to the Aebersold camp vortex!
 
#160
Chris:

Just subscribed.
I can only echo all the well-deserved kudo's you are getting on this thread. It's all so informative and well-presented.
The downside for me is that as one who has simply muddled his way along on the double bass for the past 14 years....I can now see very clearly just how much I am doing wrong!
I don't have a lot of hobby playing time left (official geezer now) but after seeing the video's I can attempt to correct some things wherever possible.
I still enjoy playing (acoustic music) but I am under no illusions about my limited technique and knowledge.
Anytime I come acoss someone who wants to play the double bass in any kind of music, I will immediately refer them to your video's and hope they take advantage of a wonderful way assess this instrument and start off the right way.
Thanks a million.
 

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