New Kit Build - Dead E String

[Alex Xander]

Hi Folks,

I recently completed a kit build tele style bass from pitbullguitars.com. The pickups are two mudbuckers, one in the neck position, the other one slightly closer to the bridge. The bridge is a generic Chinese high mass bridge, while all the other parts are low quality ones from the kit.

The bass was basically put together with parts I had lying around and while I'm happy with the overall outcome, I just can't the E string to sustain like the others.

Things I have tried so far
Adjusting the pickup pole pieces to be closer to the E string
Changing strings
Reversing the bridge saddle on the E string
Placing a capo on the first fret to rule out the nut

Does anyone have any idea what I might look for next? I really like the bass and the sound is exactly what I was aiming for (the three position selector offers mud in the bridge position, more mud in the middle position and more mud again in the neck position ), but the dead E string is really limiting its usefulness.

Any advice would be appreciated

Alex

 

[MynameisMe]

Might want to post some pictures and possibly some audio clips.

 

[Alex Xander]

 

[Alex Xander]

I'm having trouble capturing the sound with my limited recording capabilities. My phone is compressing everything so heavily that the lack of sustain isn't particularly evident when recorded

 

[RichterScale]

The pups might actually be too close and the magnets are pulling too hard on the string, limiting how long it vibrates.
Can you lower the E string pole and then lower the entire pup into the body a bit?

 

[Jeff Siddall]

The pups might actually be too close and the magnets are pulling too hard on the string, limiting how long it vibrates.
Can you lower the E string pole and then lower the entire pup into the body a bit?

Agreed! The magnetic field around pickups actually absorbs energy from the string so further away will mean better sustain (though not necessarily better tone -- it's a balancing act).

Also, make sure you put a sharp kink in your string before you cut it (and don't cut off the kink) when installing. That should help prevent the winding from coming loose from the core, which can absorb energy and reduce sustain.

 

[RichterScale]

Ha! I got one right!
That's one in a row!

 

[ctmullins]

Another thing you could try is swapping the A and E bridge saddles, to see if the problem moves to the A string.

 

[Alex Xander]

Thanks for the tips, folks.

I tried a few things today based on advice received here -

Lowered the pole pieces on the E string on both pickups (no appreciable change). Lowering the pickup will be a little more work with a chisel, but I will give it a go.

Swapped the saddles between the E and A strings - I think I could notice a difference, but an open A is still so much fatter than an open E.

In my very crude scientific testing, I've determined an open E sustains for about 15 seconds when plucked with the same gusto that sustains an open A for 21 seconds.

My experimentation came to a halt when I noticed I had chewed off the threads on the E string tuner. I wonder if this could have been my problem, or at the very least was contributing to it. I have some gotoh replacements on their way.

If I have no success with the tuners, I have a pair of dimarzio model one pickups I can put in place of the artec mudbuckers to rule them out. I hope it's not the pickups, however - I had a very specific sound in mind piecing this together and I managed to nail it.

Is there such a thing as a neck with dead notes? This kit was ridiculously cheap and the quality is obviously reflected by the price. Maybe a different Chinese neck would yield different results?

I would still appreciate any tips and advice - my problem may be far from solved and I have extremely limited expertise in this area.

 

[spatters]

Maybe the E string itself is dead. Try a different set of strings.

 

[reverendrally]

Maybe the E string itself is dead. Try a different set of strings.

I'd be trying a different string. Pull one off another bass and try it. Borrow one from a friend. Try a flat wound. Experiment. This is a common issue with B strings too.

As to the neck, which I doubt. Fender style bass necks do have dead spots. However they tend to be between C and Eb on the G string. On a fretless those same notes can be dead on the D string. A whole dead E string due to the neck is unlikely.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Agreed, try a different string. Also easy enough to swap that gear with a different tuner and give it a try.
OT, I've never seen a gear that mangled, on any instrument.

 

[andruca]

If you want to quickly rule out dead spots (I doubt it can be all along the string at any note) you can apply a metal clamp to the headstock (put some cloth in between) and see if it's still dead. I've gotten rid of dead spots in both my 2 kit builds by either moving to a 3+1 tuner configuration or by using a Fender Fat Finger (a fancy clamp for your headstock).

 

[vinlander]

If no clamp is available, for dead notes a fast way to identify is to touch a wall or a heavy table with the headstock while plucking the string to hear if its still doing it.

 

[mellowgerman]

Have you considered the angle at which the string runs from the tuning peg to the nut? Is there a good break angle over the nut? Typically it helps to press down with your thumb on either side of the nut, to make sure the string runs straight from point to point, without any extra arching (if that makes sense). This settling happens naturally as a part of the "break-in" process of a string, but it can take days under full tension to happen on its own. Helping it along by pressing down on the string on both sides might make the string vibrate more freely. Granted, if there was some kind of weird arch tension going on there, you'd think it would be eliminated from the equation by fretting the string farther down, but I'm not really sure of the physics... it might still bias the vibrations in one direction or another. On the same token, I would check the break angle over the bridge saddle too.
Also, I've had the experience with several of the overseas mudbuckers that the magnetic field is weaker around the E string, so trying the Dimarzio Model One pickups is a good idea, like you said, to rule out issues with the pickups.
See post #5 in the following linked thread for a potential fix if a weak magnetic field around the E is the culprit: Mudbucker - lower volume on e string?

 

[George Dennis]

I think you should troubleshoot "Artec Sidewinder" as these are apparently a faithful remake of the old Gibson mudbuckers but because they are sidewinders, have a bit of a rep for the magnetic field not quite being wide enough to cover E and G, though far more noticeable on the E. (It's possible you've compounded any effect by having two close together).

There are some hacks people appear to have used with success. On mine I raised the E&G pole pieces relative to the others to maximise their output, then turn the volume knob down and let the amp do the work.

In my opinion, they're thoroughly worthwhile if you're after that chunky vintage tone.

Nice looking bass btw - best of luck getting that tone you're after!

 

[ctmullins]

Is the problem readily apparent when playing unplugged? If so, the issue is mechanical/structural, and not in the electronics.

 

[ric4682]

Is the problem readily apparent when playing unplugged? If so, the issue is mechanical/structural, and not in the electronics.

^^^ This

Knowing if it’s mechanical or electronic will give us a great place to start.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Yeah that E tuning gear is horribly abused, that's another symptom.

Try another string.

Determine if it's a mechanical condition as mentioned above.

Good luck,
Dirk

 

[Fishstick]

The pups are too close to the strings.
Shim the neck so you can raise the bridge. Then adjust the poles with the E highest.
edit-and you still might want a compressor.