I am not sure how it works. I am not sure it is 50/50, because in my mind when I would connect 2 (non connected) cables, it should in theory drop the volume by 50% if that was the case. I am just not knowledgeable about how that stuff works, but in my opinion they should have either made it series (when cables connected, it would insert the loop in the linear signal chain) or made it semi-parallel with a blend knob to blend or favor one signal or the other or blend the 2 chains. There are dudes that get it better than me, so there may be a good reason for it, but it seems silly to me.
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New Markbass Vintage Pre
- Thread starter Stranger Danger
- Start date
I don't know why Markbass does this. They do it on their amps too. I get the benefit if your loop has an issue but that's no reason to basically cripple the loop in the first place. IMO the loop is pointless if you can't control the dry/wet. Either make it 100% wet (like ever single other loop I've dealt with) or provide a control.
I assumed a serial loop and I have had my compressor in it for a while now. It seemed to be working fine. Obviously if it is in fact parallel that won't do. I need to do some experimentation.
Hopefully markbass has a jumper or something that can switch it to serial. I was able to convert my MoMark to serial that way.
I assumed a serial loop and I have had my compressor in it for a while now. It seemed to be working fine. Obviously if it is in fact parallel that won't do. I need to do some experimentation.
Hopefully markbass has a jumper or something that can switch it to serial. I was able to convert my MoMark to serial that way.
Wow, I'm gonna have to contact Markbass about this directly I guess. I got this months ago as the first step of building up my pedal chain, with the goal of using the DI for home recording. So if this is how the effects loop works, then it looks like I wasted ~€400 on this thing.
I replied to the support email and told them it did not make sense and to jump on this thread and explain. Not sure they will, but worth a try.
You could get an effects loop pedal like the BOSS Line Selector. It is not really the same thing, but perhaps it could give you an option.
You could get an effects loop pedal like the BOSS Line Selector. It is not really the same thing, but perhaps it could give you an option.
Markbass amps can be switched between serial/parallel loops internally, see also Effects loop: parallel to series for Markbass LM III – Our Technical Narrative
Never saw the inside of the Vintage Pre, but there might be a jumper somewhere as well then.
Never saw the inside of the Vintage Pre, but there might be a jumper somewhere as well then.
I just emailed them as well. In my mind the purpose of a preamp +DI with an effects loop would be to have the signal go totally through the preamp (gain, distortion, EQ, everything) then 100% through the effects loop, and then finally out through volume control to the DI. Why on earth would anyone want it the way they have it now (effect is parallel blend 50/50 and then after goes into the EQ)? To me it 100% defeats the purpose of the effects loop. My only other option is to run my whole pedal chain first and then finally into the Markbass. But then I missing out on the gain coloration and the distortion and EQ of the preamp being able to go into the pedals as I want (ie. I want to have the compressor after being processed by the Markbass, not before).
I highly doubt you'll get them to jump on here.. but if you do happen to get a response please let us know...
I agree completely.. I wanted to put my compressor in the loop in order to avoid the whole input/output level control dance that I would have to do every time I adjust gain or wanted more output out of the preamp. I have things in my chain that follow the preamp and I just want one single output control to deal with it and I don't want to think about how that impacts my compressor and blah blah blah blah. It's just simpler.
There HAS to be a jumper inside to adjust this if in fact it is parallel.
And thinking about this further it kinda is pissing me off that they didn't include this bit of tech info for those of us looking to buy it. They certainly had plenty of time between announcement and when it was actually orderable to fill us in.
Yeah, I think they bunged up their reply. I have an 1176 compressor in the effects loop. If I turn down the output of the compressor, I get no sound through the pedal. Turn it up and the entire pedal's sound rises.
I got a reply from my email:
“thanks for writing and for choosing Markbass.
Yes, the fx loop is in parallel.
This means that it's 50/50 dry/wet signal, and this configuration is perfect for modulation effect like chorus, reverb, delay, etc.
Effects that need a direct tracking/serial signal like envelope, octaver, compressor, synth can be used directly to the input of the preamp.
Having a fx loop in serial would work not good with modulation effects (as well as also connected to the frontal input), the reason of the parallel setting by default not modifiable is to offer the option to have modulation effects connected to the send/return and other type of effects direct to the input.”
It was cool of them to reply and provide the information. However as mentioned above I think this info should be clearly stated in the marketing/tech specs/and manual. Otherwise the only way you find out about it is like me: after you buy it and then are confused by the sound of the effects loop. If I had known this before I would not have purchased the pedal, as I want to EQ and tubify my sound, then put it into pedals, then run the final signal out via the DI. Am I doing it wrong to want to do it this way? How does the effects loop work in other pedals of this type, do they allow for what I want to do?
“thanks for writing and for choosing Markbass.
Yes, the fx loop is in parallel.
This means that it's 50/50 dry/wet signal, and this configuration is perfect for modulation effect like chorus, reverb, delay, etc.
Effects that need a direct tracking/serial signal like envelope, octaver, compressor, synth can be used directly to the input of the preamp.
Having a fx loop in serial would work not good with modulation effects (as well as also connected to the frontal input), the reason of the parallel setting by default not modifiable is to offer the option to have modulation effects connected to the send/return and other type of effects direct to the input.”
It was cool of them to reply and provide the information. However as mentioned above I think this info should be clearly stated in the marketing/tech specs/and manual. Otherwise the only way you find out about it is like me: after you buy it and then are confused by the sound of the effects loop. If I had known this before I would not have purchased the pedal, as I want to EQ and tubify my sound, then put it into pedals, then run the final signal out via the DI. Am I doing it wrong to want to do it this way? How does the effects loop work in other pedals of this type, do they allow for what I want to do?
Agreed.
I run my effects in the loop of my Shift Line, and I figured the MB would be a drop-in replacement. I like a good preamp to be the first thing my instrument signal sees.
Yeah. That's one of the reasons why I like my EBS Microbass II preamp....
Honestly.. i don't really agree with their rational to having the loop that way. Probably it was a design compromise to not offer it as a switchable setting and that is their excuse.
Not happy about that... i am surprised I didn't pick up on it on my board.. I'll have to experiment a bit. But also re-wire and not happy about that either...
yuck.
Not happy about that... i am surprised I didn't pick up on it on my board.. I'll have to experiment a bit. But also re-wire and not happy about that either...
yuck.
Having the Effect send/return designed the way they did makes perfect sense in a technical way. On a DAW/console you would also put chorus etc. parallel and dynamic effects (compressor etc.) serial. …and I don’t really get the point of you guys here, why you don’t put it in front of the pedal as MB suggests. But folks: I am having this pedal since beginning of the year. And I think all the features don’t count if it doesn’t sound! Here is my story: I only used it in my recording environment at home for practising and it sounded kinda‘ OK. Now, the other day, I took it to our rehearsal room. Since the pandemic we moved to a larger place (social distancing) and where all playing through headphones. So I unplugged the cabinet from my Orange four stroke and used the head with DI directly in the console (for a headphone mix). So I had the Idea - since I use the Orange only as a preamp, I could use the MarkBass as well. And what did I experience? My beloved growly Stingray sounded like it was hidden under a blanket!! I hardly couldn‘t believe it, how bad this thing sounds in the context of the whole band (2 guit, voc drums). But that‘s an experience I had earlier with MarkBass. I‘ve tried from time to time in our local music shop various mark bass amps and cabinets, since quite a number of my (Jazz) Bass heroes play Markbass and these guys have a great sound. I always found that Mark Bass stuff sounds muddy and not very differentiated. So I wonder how all the great guys get their sound out of that MB gear??? I got the vintage preamp merely because of it‘s possibility to digitally go direct into my firewire Interface. But this experience was so disappointing that I have now ordered a gallien krueger PLEX and a Mesa Subway preamp and will definately sell the Mark Bass (unfortunatly the 30 days money back already expired). … and I am finally thinking about ticking Mark bass off my „gear to check“ list.
…muddy and indifferentiated. If that‘s MB‘s vision of a tube sound they should get some Mesa Tube amps and listen to that
It's not that hard to see, but it may not be intuitive. They are so clear mainly because they're either boosting their midrange, or backing off the bass and raising the volume of the amp.
Markbass cabinets, like common 4x10 models can produce enough bass to overtake their midrange. At least until you get about 15 feet in front of them.
That Jazz or Fusion clarity comes from bringing the bass under control and pushing your low-mids forward.
You'll get that sound with the Subway Preamp, no problem. You'll still need to experiment with the midrange controls.
The PLEX might be a bit more difficult because it has that weird top-end you'll have to dial out to get the midrange to move forward without sounding clacky. I really didn't like the Plex, I found it didn't get me anywhere near that midrange-fluffiness I loved with the old 800RB.
Does anyone else here find that dialing the input Gain up to where the Tube lights flash almost immediately gets you into a really bad distortion? To me, on the clean side, it has no "give" to it - it basically flops into a very electronic distortion as soon as you clip the input.
