New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[mmbass21]

There was long discussion with Alex in the barefaced thread. The woofer was custom made to be 6 ohms to produce a 4 ohm 6x10. That means the 210 is either 12 or 3. Alex swears its ok to think of it as 4 because of AC resistance factors but this issue always bothered me.

Barefaced 69'er thread

Alex posted this and some other answers in the large barefaced thread as well. Outside of the technical stuff, I can say that the Two10s can handle anything the WD can throw at it. It all depends on the tone you're going for. In live situations I'm always surprised how big and full it sounds with the WD, never seems like a 2x10 is behind me.

 

[agedhorse]

Without true cabinet impedance plots, everything is just speculation.

As an amp designer, I encourage all speaker designers to respect the minimum rated impedance of the amps that will be driving their speakers.

 

[Lowendtech]

I did an outdoor Christmas gig last year (at night and it was below freezing) with a D800+ and my Two10.
I got told to turn down.
Apparently it was loud as......

 

[smeet]

I haven’t read through the whole thread, but I’m just wondering. I hear so much about the subway amps, but next to nothing about the cabs. I currently have a Barefaced Four10 and Big Twin (2x12 and tweeter). Both great cabinets, but I’m wondering how the subway 212 and 215 might compare sonically to either of the two Barefaced models. Has anyone been able to compare them?

 

[Wild_Bill_57]

Not familiar the the Barefaced cabs, But I run a Subway 215 (w/ WD800), it’s a monster but still weighs less than 60lbs. It will pretty much cover about any gig without an issue. Everything I have used in the Subway line has been great, I have used them all except the 410.

 

[3rdcurve]

I would like to try a 2x12 + 115 stack

 

[smeet]

Not familiar the the Barefaced cabs, But I run a Subway 215 (w/ WD800), it’s a monster but still weighs less than 60lbs. It will pretty much cover about any gig without an issue. Everything I have used in the Subway line has been great, I have used them all except the 410.

Here’s my situation: the Four10 has a wonderful vintagey color, nice lows and a low mid bump which gives it great punch and very intelligible in the mix. But it’s a bit dark in the highs, I’d like more bite and sparkle. The Big Twin is FRFR so it has all the highs, but I miss that color.

What I want is the vintage low mid punch, with some of that modern high mid and highs for some aggressive cut. Do the subway cabs have that?

 

[HaphAsSard]

Is this really true? The specs I saw said 6 ohms and 12 onms or 4 ohms and 12 ohms. Neither actually make mathematical sense however.

Since I don't know what's correct, if the 4 ohm number is right but it's actually closer to 3 ohms, the amp's 2 ohm position would be the correct one and I would absolutely not recommend operating the amp in the 4 ohm position. Too much risk of damage to the speaker from overpowering (no matter what others might say) and also risk to the amp from sub-nominal 4 ohm load. Please don't do this to your amp!!!

(Why would any product be marketed in a way that would risk the amp it's connected to?)

There was long discussion with Alex in the barefaced thread. The woofer was custom made to be 6 ohms to produce a 4 ohm 6x10. That means the 210 is either 12 or 3. Alex swears its ok to think of it as 4 because of AC resistance factors but this issue always bothered me.

Barefaced 69'er thread

As I ventured about a year ago,

Plus, but Alex never mentioned anything of the sort and it's just my speculation, [within the .5 crossover] there may also be some mild resistive trickery to bring up the impedance minimums and keep the all-parallel config within tolerance for most amps.

but as I specified then and reiterate now, it

is just speculation.

 

[agedhorse]

Without data it is speculation.

 

[pickles]

Since these mesas are so powerful I’d just err on the side of higher impedance with the barefaced retros. Just set it to 12.

 

[agedhorse]

Since these mesas are so powerful I’d just err on the side of higher impedance with the barefaced retros. Just set it to 12.

The Subways will deliver about 300 watts into 12 ohms, so this is a viable option except that it does give up some potential speaker performance.

 

[lomo]

Here’s my situation: the Four10 has a wonderful vintagey color, nice lows and a low mid bump which gives it great punch and very intelligible in the mix. But it’s a bit dark in the highs, I’d like more bite and sparkle. The Big Twin is FRFR so it has all the highs, but I miss that color.

What I want is the vintage low mid punch, with some of that modern high mid and highs for some aggressive cut. Do the subway cabs have that?

I used to have a pair of BF One10s, and I played through a Subway 215 recently....to my ear, the Subway (15s at least) will project more true bass (below 80 Hz) and provide tweeter sparkle/ air at the top. I divested of the BF 10s because although I loved their sound, I felt painted into a 1 trick pony corner and wanted more airiness up top.

 

[lermgalieu]

I used to have a pair of BF One10s, and I played through a Subway 215 recently....to my ear, the Subway (15s at least) will project more true bass (below 80 Hz) and provide tweeter sparkle/ air at the top. I divested of the BF 10s because although I loved their sound, I felt painted into a 1 trick pony corner and wanted more airiness up top.

I love my bf 110 as well as my Subways. Maybe the biggest difference is that the bf 110 doesn’t have a tweeter tho?

 

[mmbongo]

Here’s my situation: the Four10 has a wonderful vintagey color, nice lows and a low mid bump which gives it great punch and very intelligible in the mix. But it’s a bit dark in the highs, I’d like more bite and sparkle. The Big Twin is FRFR so it has all the highs, but I miss that color.

What I want is the vintage low mid punch, with some of that modern high mid and highs for some aggressive cut. Do the subway cabs have that?

You will probably want the Subway 2x12. The 2x15 will be deeper, clearer, and more articulate but the 2x12 would be closer to the Barefaced 4x10, as it's a little thicker in the low mids and to me does the 'vintage' thing better than the 15's....but keep in mind the Subway 15's are my all time favorite sounding cabinets. I didn't get along with the Barefaced 10's as they are designed for cone breakup and that's not what I look for. But the Subway 12 will get you close to that sound with the added sparkle of the tweeter.

 

[lomo]

I love my bf 110 as well as my Subways. Maybe the biggest difference is that the bf 110 doesn’t have a tweeter tho?

I think there are significant differences at both ends of the spectrum, at least compared to the SW 15s, which are bigger and wider down low and more airy on top. The BF110, to my ear, is a gorgeous, low mid, velvety box, but with limited range.

 

[dbase]

Seems like a good time to bring out my beauties.. Hartke + Mesa = bass goodness.

 

[Snackulus]

Thank you kindly everyone for the suggestions! This is a new rig for me, & it’s been a while since I’ve ran a multi-cab setup. I wanted to make sure I didn’t put the cabs or amp at risk.
For 2 cabs, I’ll run the amp at 2ohms, both cabs set to 4ohms. For one cab, I’ll run the amp at 2ohms, cab set to 4ohms. I like this solution as it keeps things simple too. No matter how I run the rig, amp is always set to 2ohms, cab(s) always set to 4ohms.
I love this amp by the way.
I can get the tones I’m looking for & there are so many great features to utilize (especially for silent home practice). I also like how there’s an led light to indicate that you’re in 2ohms mode, & when that’s happening you’re now seeing two lights (2ohms + power), which quickly tells your brain “two lights means 2ohms! Are you sure you want to un-mute?” Very clever.
Well done Mesa!

 

[tombowlus]

Without true cabinet impedance plots, everything is just speculation.

As an amp designer, I encourage all speaker designers to respect the minimum rated impedance of the amps that will be driving their speakers.

We did publish an impedance curve for a 4-ohm Two10 in the Bass Gear Magazine review (though you do need to be a Bass Gear Premium subscriber to see the Cab Lab technical reviews).

 

[agedhorse]

We did publish an impedance curve for a 4-ohm Two10 in the Bass Gear Magazine review (though you do need to be a Bass Gear Premium subscriber to see the Cab Lab technical reviews).

Could you post just the plot for reference since this topic has shown to be confusing?

 

[tombowlus]

Let me see if I can find the original impedance curve chart as a standalone file...