New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[rodl2005]

I disagree with the analogy of a new phone although that was probably part of what sparked this response My last I phone suddenly became a dinosaur. It was more the short time line between model changes that had me thinking. Again, as I stated they make a solid amp that I like very much. Yes, R&D takes time but forethought does not.

Again.... who's making ya buy em?
It's it REALLY that much of an 'upgrade' getting the noo model phone?
As soon as I bought my last(current) 0h
ph, Samsung brought out a S8+, then a S9 and.. etc etc... more models than I could shake a stick at.
But apart from a few minutes of thinking "bah.... irrational new tech fixation" I've not suffered in any way. The newer ph's really don't do anything extra that I'd need.. etc etc. Blah blah... I'm sure you know the story

Really, it's pretty similar with amps.
I've got 2 amps that are 4 or 5 yrs old that do EVERYTHING I need and sound superb. No they don't have USB outs on em, and I'm sure they sound different than this new WD, but.... come on, 1st world problems
Get it if you want/ need.
I probly will at some stage. BUT, as I like in a place that doesn't have Mesa dealers, AND it's AUSTRALIA, so Mesa stuff will cost more than a machine that goes "PING"
I wanna hear a lotta ppls stories about how effin fantastic it really is, before I'll consider grabbing it.
Basically, I'm happy with my current amps. Still, as I said, I'll probably get one in future
And, just to be clear, I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. Just quoted yr post to gain reference.
It's all....."just saying..."
(I'm sitting in a green room prior to a gig. So, forgive me for my multiple posts. )

 

[Krisfield]

So much new gear coming out, I'd rather lease gear than buy it out right.

 

[Microbass]

The D800+ has been out for 2 years, I don't see why anyone should have an issue with a new similar product.

I used work in telecoms and people would get so bent out of shape when the new Samsung or iPhone came out. For years they brought out a new product at the same time every year.

The new amp looks amazing, right up my street. I've always been a huge Mesa fan since playing through a M2000 and a 4x10/2x15 or some combo of the Road Ready series. Ooommmphhhh. I'll need a lottery win in the UK to pull off a purchase though!

 

[rodl2005]

Yeah, sadly here in Australia it's a similar situation. Prices way over the USD match, even taking freight into consideration they're high.

 

[chris_b]

So much new gear coming out, I'd rather lease gear than buy it out right.

Yeah, but "new" isn't always "better".

All my amps are more than 3 years old. I have a combination of basses, amps and cabs that make a great sound. I'll upgrade to sound better but won't bother changing just to sound different. I keep an eye on new gear but I have no interest in changing anything on my rig.

Buy something that makes you sound good and then, why would you want to change that?

 

[joel406]

For starters let me say that the Mesa product line is one of the finest of anything you will ever find anywhere on planet earth.

That being said.

I am a long time Gallien Krueger user. I switched to the D-800+ and ditched my GL head and used the Subway for a full year.

Mind you this is just “my” experience.

After using the Subway for a year I felt the tone wasn’t as punchy at low ended as I was looking for and decided to go and get a Gallien Krueger MB-800 fusion.

I still owned the Mesa. But I began A/B testing.

The GK won out. More power more punch more thump. More tonal options. Do I miss the HPF?

No.

The controls on the GK offer similar if not more control over my tone.

Now we have a new Subway.

Looks cool.

But!

Only a single pre amp tube?

The MBF-800 has 3.

The first tube is amplified by the second which is amplified by the third. Pushing the pre gives an amazing grit tone. And having 2 channels gives me both clean and dirt at the press of a foot switch.

Now the GK isn’t 2 ohm capable but at 560 watts into 8 ohms and 1120 into 4. I’m pushing more power than I’ll ever need with 2 410 cabs.

Is this new Subway a good/great amp?

Of course it is.

But the Mesa tone isn’t for me. To clean. And my D-800+ was getting lost in the mix. Don’t know why. But I seemed to have to push it more to get what a got from the GK at much lower levels.

My old D-800 plus also clipped a lot. I use passive bass’s only. I don’t care for active anymore. And my Jazz bass had no problem flashing the little red light. I had to keep the input way down to prevent this.

By the way I use no pedals. No over drive. Nothing. Straight into amp and if needed out from the amp DI to the house.

I hope Mesa has a winner here.

I feel I gave it a fair shot.

I’ve got zero gas for this one.

 

[mmbass21]

Yeah, but "new" isn't always "better".

All my amps are more than 3 years old. I have a combination of basses, amps and cabs that make a great sound. I'll upgrade to sound better but won't bother changing just to sound different. I keep an eye on new gear but I have no interest in changing anything on my rig.

Buy something that makes you sound good and then, why would you want to change that?

For starters let me say that the Mesa product line is one of the finest of anything you will ever find anywhere on planet earth.

That being said.

I am a long time Gallien Krueger user. I switched to the D-800+ and ditched my GL head and used the Subway for a full year.

Mind you this is just “my” experience.

After using the Subway for a year I felt the tone wasn’t as punchy at low ended as I was looking for and decided to go and get a Gallien Krueger MB-800 fusion.

I still owned the Mesa. But I began A/B testing.

The GK won out. More power more punch more thump. More tonal options. Do I miss the HPF?

No.

The controls on the GK offer similar if not more control over my tone.

Now we have a new Subway.

Looks cool.

But!

Only a single pre amp tube?

The MBF-800 has 3.

The first tube is amplified by the second which is amplified by the third. Pushing the pre gives an amazing grit tone. And having 2 channels gives me both clean and dirt at the press of a foot switch.

Now the GK isn’t 2 ohm capable but at 560 watts into 8 ohms and 1120 into 4. I’m pushing more power than I’ll ever need with 2 410 cabs.

Is this new Subway a good/great amp?

Of course it is.

But the Mesa tone isn’t for me. To clean. And my D-800+ was getting lost in the mix. Don’t know why. But I seemed to have to push it more to get what a got from the GK at much lower levels.

My old D-800 plus also clipped a lot. I use passive bass’s only. I don’t care for active anymore. And my Jazz bass had no problem flashing the little red light. I had to keep the input way down to prevent this.

By the way I use no pedals. No over drive. Nothing. Straight into amp and if needed out from the amp DI to the house.

I hope Mesa has a winner here.

I feel I gave it a fair shot.

I’ve got zero gas for this one.

Glad you found your tone. More pre-amp tubes don't necessarily equate to a better pre-amp. I'm highly intrigued by the new GK fusion line when the come out soon. GK doesn't have all the features I want in their current fusions. I do like the 2 channels but I use pedals so it isn't a necessity for me. I'm stoked to get my WD!!

 

[agedhorse]

For starters let me say that the Mesa product line is one of the finest of anything you will ever find anywhere on planet earth.

That being said.

I am a long time Gallien Krueger user. I switched to the D-800+ and ditched my GL head and used the Subway for a full year.

Mind you this is just “my” experience.

After using the Subway for a year I felt the tone wasn’t as punchy at low ended as I was looking for and decided to go and get a Gallien Krueger MB-800 fusion.

I still owned the Mesa. But I began A/B testing.

The GK won out. More power more punch more thump. More tonal options. Do I miss the HPF?

No.

The controls on the GK offer similar if not more control over my tone.

Now we have a new Subway.

Looks cool.

But!

Only a single pre amp tube?

The MBF-800 has 3.

The first tube is amplified by the second which is amplified by the third. Pushing the pre gives an amazing grit tone. And having 2 channels gives me both clean and dirt at the press of a foot switch.

Now the GK isn’t 2 ohm capable but at 560 watts into 8 ohms and 1120 into 4. I’m pushing more power than I’ll ever need with 2 410 cabs.

Is this new Subway a good/great amp?

Of course it is.

But the Mesa tone isn’t for me. To clean. And my D-800+ was getting lost in the mix. Don’t know why. But I seemed to have to push it more to get what a got from the GK at much lower levels.

My old D-800 plus also clipped a lot. I use passive bass’s only. I don’t care for active anymore. And my Jazz bass had no problem flashing the little red light. I had to keep the input way down to prevent this.

By the way I use no pedals. No over drive. Nothing. Straight into amp and if needed out from the amp DI to the house.

I hope Mesa has a winner here.

I feel I gave it a fair shot.

I’ve got zero gas for this one.

If you are having issues with your bass clipping the input on your D-800+, switch the pad to the "active" position. This rescales the gain stage without changing the input impedance and does absolutely nothing negative to the tone.

 

[joel406]

Glad you found your tone. More pre-amp tubes don't necessarily equate to a better pre-amp. I'm highly intrigued by the new GK fusion line when the come out soon. GK doesn't have all the features I want in their current fusions. I do like the 2 channels but I use pedals so it isn't a necessity for me. I'm stoked to get my WD!!

And I'm certain you're going to love it. I am also awaiting the new GK fusion line. Fortunately I won't be in the market till Feb/Mar and by then I hope to see the 1200 available.

People enjoy your new Mesa subway. I'm sure they are everything you are looking for and then some.

Personally I'm getting a little gas for that new 410 subway.

 

[mmbass21]

And I'm certain you're going to love it. I am also awaiting the new GK fusion line. Fortunately I won't be in the market till Feb/Mar and by then I hope to see the 1200 available.

People enjoy your new Mesa subway. I'm sure they are everything you are looking for and then some.

Personally I'm getting a little gas for that new 410 subway.

Perfect world scenario for me would be the GK1200 and either my current Mesa D800+ or the WD. I like options...

 

[NKBassman]

Different ballparks imo.
Berg is a sealed 212, ceramic magnet speakers
Mesa, neo mags, ported enclosure

Would I like one or 2 of each?

Mos definitely

Yeah I get that. They'd sound different for sure, but I could work with either one.

 

[joel406]

If you are having issues with your bass clipping the input on your D-800+, switch the pad to the "active" position. This rescales the gain stage without changing the input impedance and does absolutely nothing negative to the tone.

I actually tried that.

Mind you this was through 8 ohm 410, 800 watt cabs. Either one or two at a time. Never going below 4 ohms.

Serious loss of presence.

One thing I may have forgotten to mention I always ran the low and high boost switches on.

The MBF-800 has a limiter which “to me” acts like a compressore. Preventing clipping while not affecting sound quality.

Not that the Subway has bad sound quality but the pad made a difference to me, on a passive instrument that made it unusable.

I didn’t get enough from the equalizer to combat this. The mid gain controls didn’t help enough either. On top of all that and having to worry about the clipping took away from just enjoying the amp itself.

My GK on the other hand allows me to quickly set tone either inside or out quickly. And let me tell ya. The bass boost in the MBF-800 is scary. Amazing difference. To the point of .... I don’t use it. The low end of this amp is freaky. My speakers seem to be able to handle it but I just don’t need to push like that. It literally seems to take the low end and push it farther out across the area. But without it I still get a punchy low end that can restart a dead mans heart.

 

[agedhorse]

The GK tone is quite different from the Subway, it's likely that you prefer the GK voicing better, nothing wrong with that. Play what works for you.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

If I was smarter, I probably could have written less! I just wanted David to be sure he read my response as not simply saying his perspective deserved revisiting once he had the whole picture. He's a good person and I felt it was only respectful to share the entire story as I knew it from a first hand point of view. His response back was most gracious, reflecting the fine gentleman he is.

Wait! What’s happening. Where am I, and what did you do with the real TB?

 

[nostatic]

The GK tone is quite different from the Subway, it's likely that you prefer the GK voicing better, nothing wrong with that. Play what works for you.

This in spades. Every amp has some degree of "baked in" tone when everything is set flat (or in the case of the new WD800, when the passive mid is dimed if I understand the eq structure). I've owned/gigged most of the major players. With any current GK head, I had to run the treble about 9:00 and upper mids around 10:00 to get something close to my typical starting point. I find it to be a bright head. Some guys love that. A lotta guys love JJ basses, scoop their amp, and slap away. I hate that tone for my playing (though Marcus makes it work ).

Plenty of guys out there would probably plug into my rig and not like it. It works in my hands for my gigs, but it may not work for everyone. And that's...OK.

As they say in the car industry, "there's a butt for every seat."

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

And the folks, including some that play with me had the D800 then the + came out in no time and that was devalued, now the WD800 and the + is devalued. Not to be snarky but, short sighted engineering, brilliant marketing strategy, or greed driven? I am sorry but I just don't get it. The D800 was and is great but the addition of the high pass filter (which should be on every amp on the market imho and use to be on many; ie 80Hz switch on my GK800RB that's 20+ years old) was added to the + then the WD800 with a tube in it's pre and a designated 2 ohm switch and parametric. That said, I have always loved Mesa eq and general build quality of their amps but the sequential release of products in such a short time frame with minor additional features does not make me applaud.

Damn Ford, GM and all the rest. How dare they come out with a minor change version of the same car every year?
Falcon, Falcon, Falcon, change up a little sheet metal... Kaboom! Mustang.

 

[nostatic]

Damn Ford, GM and all the rest. How dare they come out with a minor change version of the same car every year?
Falcon, Falcon, Falcon, change up a little sheet metal... Kaboom! Mustang.

 

[Killens84]

Do the Power Amp Damping and the variable HPF achieve similar goals?

 

[pfschim]

huh, I must have missed this detail with the original Walkabout ....
from the new WD-800 manual: "Tone shaping on the SUBWAY WD-800 includes an active Baxandall EQ"
does my Walkabout have a Bax EQ ? or is this just a new development for the WD-800 ?

I mean I do know that the Walkabout has an active Bass and Treble control with a passive Mid control (aside from the parametric EQ section).

also, after reading through the manual, I see that it reads "The preamp section includes a hybrid J-FET/12AT7 (or 12AU7) vacuum tube variable GAIN stage ..."
I've already read Andy's comments on the preamp tube choices, but am interested to know results a user could expect by using a 12AU7 instead of the 12AT7. I understand (more or less) that the differences in the various 12A-7 tubes is their gain factors, with the 12AX7 = 100, AT7 = 60 and the AU7 = 17, but what would this mean to my ears ? ... and what about using a 12AY7 ?

on edit:
I did some tube rolling with my Walkabout some years ago using some of the guidance from other more experienced tube rollers here and found that swapping tubes in V1 had little impact to my ears, but changes to the V2 tube had much more audible, and positive, impact. So, its with this in mind that I ask the question about the differences the various tubes might make.

 

[agedhorse]

Do the Power Amp Damping and the variable HPF achieve similar goals?

Not really, the HPF is a frequency dependent control that raises the extreme low frequency response of the amp as it's rotated clockwise. The damping control changes the damping of the power amp which interacts with the speaker's varying impedance, resulting in dynamic amplitude changes which alter the amp's overall frequency response dynamically. This is one factor in a tube type power amp that's responsible for feel and perception if looseness.