New mesa subway amps and cabs!

[Old Garage-Bander]

Oh am I late to this party!!

This party’s just gettin started.
Wait until these start shipping and a few TBers start posting gig reports.
This is 20+ pages now and the things are still on pre order.

I’d love to have this or the 800/800+ and a couple of their cabs but can’t even justify what I have now.
So I’m off to the GAS station to buy some lottos.

 

[agedhorse]

It would almost surely blow-out the speaker(s) on that Walkabout combo.

Yes, it will if he's not very careful and doesn't exercise good judgement and common sense. Even with the 8 ohm cabinet, though running the amp in 2 ohm Mode will help by reducing the rated power to 300 watts from 400 watts.

 

[McFarlin]

I think Mesa missed the boat.
The variable DAMPING control on the WD800 is waaay cool.
But they should put a SUBJECTIVE control on their amps.
All the way CCW and the amp plays exactly like it was designed to play.
All the way CW and the amp plays exactly the way the user wants it to play.

Yes, I expect the variable damping control on the WD-800+, but with the ability to save presets that can be changed with a dedicated footswitch.

(For some reason the smilies aren't working for me right now.)

The damping function is as much feel as tone. For very feel based players the difference of low damping mode allows the speaker's natural resonant properties to remain intact whereas in the high mode the natural resonant properties are more damped.

The more underdamoed the speaker alignment, the greater the effect of low damping will be in general. For critically damped speaker alignments the difference will be much smaller due less energy stored within the speaker's system.

Also, like with a tube amp, the differences will be greater at lower impedance due to the way damping factor is defined.

It's probably going to be appreciated by a smaller number of players than the other features, but is it something that a player can grow into as their interest in feel develop in sophistication. I might be wrong though, and this feature just takes off like the sweepable high pass filter!

When the Walkabout was my one-and-only, there was a bit of a sluggish feel that required a learning curve (especially after a year or two using a Shuttle 9.0).

Then moving to an older Ashdown ABM500, I got a similar-enough tone and some "bloom", but with a bit more definition in a live mix (according to bandmates and musician buddies). And it just felt faster. That's the only way I know how to describe it.

Next was the D-800. It was easy to find a similar voicing (sitting next to the Ashdown), and I never experienced such great pitch definition (+sustain) with lower notes. And it felt even faster!
Initially I loved that speedy/tight feeling. But I couldn't get 'er to thump the same with the palm-muting (something I was doing way too often at that time).

So, I'm looking forward to experiencing the damping feature. That's a major factor that sucked me (+wallet) in. I figure it'll help us all dial-in an even sweeter sweet spot.

You might eventually have folks begging for a damping feature on the D-800.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

The damping function is as much feel as tone. For very feel based players the difference of low damping mode allows the speaker's natural resonant properties to remain intact whereas in the high mode the natural resonant properties are more damped.

The more underdamoed the speaker alignment, the greater the effect of low damping will be in general. For critically damped speaker alignments the difference will be much smaller due less energy stored within the speaker's system.

Also, like with a tube amp, the differences will be greater at lower impedance due to the way damping factor is defined.

It's probably going to be appreciated by a smaller number of players than the other features, but is it something that a player can grow into as their interest in feel develop in sophistication. I might be wrong though, and this feature just takes off like the sweepable high pass filter!

Then in a way it has the potential to bring a more diverse range of cabs into the realm of “I like how this cab (whatever cab that may be) and this amp work together.” Would that be a reasonable description?

 

[agedhorse]

Then in a way it has the potential to bring a more diverse range of cabs into the realm of “I like how this cab (whatever cab that may be) and this amp work together.” Would that be a reasonable description?

Maybe so.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I'm really interested to know how this damping control operates, because up to now, the only way I knew of to manipulate an amp's damping factor was to put a fat power resistor in series with the speaker, which will reduce the damping factor, but obviously also acts as a power soak.

Good thought.

So this makes me wonder if you really don’t need much resistance to affect the damping. Can it be done without also being a power soak?

If you threw a 4 Ohm resister in series with 4 Ohm speaker, that will not only “soak” half your power and need to be a rather large resistor to dissipate the heat, but it will throw the damping way off from where it should be. But if you added say a 0.1 Ohm resistance in series would it affect the damping minimally but enough and not be much of a power soak?

Considering that the actual output impedance (not minimum rated Z) of a SS amp is very low, like on the order of 0.1 Ohm or less, low. And I assume the damping of a tube amp is a little higher but only as high as the coil resistance if the OT secondary yet also way below the minimum impedance rating? Then the extra damping resistance would not have to be very large would it? Maybe just something that gives you the resistance equivalent added to the SS output to simulate the tube output. In other words an additional, very small resistance in series with the speaker, that would not have to dissipate much power, yet would add (or take away actually) just enough damping to make the speaker think it’s seeing the impedance of a tube OT secondary winding? Or am I way off track?

 

[Jim C]

Maybe this will cue some responses from the beta testers that swapped & rolled for this particular amp?

FWIW as a general rule of thumb when I roll pre tubes, if a 12AT7 will work- that is what I go with. Why? because (to me) the 12AT7's seem to have a more 'musical' quality baked into them, when compared to the ubiquitous 12AX7's. And there are still plenty of primo NOS 12AT7's out there at way more attractive price points when compared to similar NOS 12AX7's and 7025's
As a side note, again from personal experience. The current crop of Mesa branded 12AT7's are right up there with most primo NOS 12AT7's.
It's nice to have a reliable current supply of new stock at bargain prices for a change.

Also (to me) the 12AT7's as a general rule of thumb again, have a lower noise floor when compared to 12AX7/7025's
High gain pre tubes are de riguer, for guitar amps, whereas in bass amps the overdriven hair of a high gain pre stage is not always desirable.
The musical tube compression/saturation that many players fall in love with, is actually produced by the sag of the power tubes anyway.
Perhaps this is where the 'damping' control and function of the new WD800 comes into play?

@agedhorse & crew, have been tasked with reproducing the legendary tonez of the OG Walkabout, with a lightweight/scaled up power section of a class D platform- no small feat by any measure. And with just what has been described here (since very few have yet to actually hear the new amp with their own ears) by just straight up and reading between the lines, it sure does look like they have met that lofty goal and have probably hit it out of the park as well. And I along with many others, can hardly wait to hear one of these for myself once they are released into the wild.

Don't agree.
Tubes don't make sound.
I don't believe the type of pre-amp tube sound any different than the others other than gain stage.
12At's are a different value of 12AX's,
The value of a pre-amp tube is based on the circuit design.
Agreed that different variations of the same type of tube can have different effects on a circuit.

 

[Chef]

I didn’t roll any tubes thru the WD800 I had as a beta tester.
I’d wager Mesa tried a number of things before settling on what they felt was best tho.

 

[agedhorse]

Don't agree.
Tubes don't make sound.
I don't believe the type of pre-amp tube sound any different than the others other than gain stage.
12At's are a different value of 12AX's,
The value of a pre-amp tube is based on the circuit design.
Agreed that different variations of the same type of tube can have different effects on a circuit.

Not true, the different parameters of a different tube type (independent of the all too often quoted "gain factor") can impact both tone and feel depending on the circuit, and it doesn't apply solely to "gain stages".

 

[detracti]

...the difference of low damping mode allows the speaker's natural resonant properties to remain intact whereas in the high mode the natural resonant properties are more damped.
...

I really like this explanation, it makes it easy to understand. So, it really can have a differing impact, depending on the player, and the types of speaker cabinets that are connected.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Beautiful feature set. Would love to try one of these for DB!

 

[BadExample]

This party’s just gettin started.
Wait until these start shipping and a few TBers start posting gig reports.
This is 20+ pages now and the things are still on pre order.

I’d love to have this or the 800/800+ and a couple of their cabs but can’t even justify what I have now.
So I’m off to the GAS station to buy some lottos.

Sell a kidney on e-bay. Some buyers do home removal right in your bath tub!

 

[Chef]

Beautiful feature set. Would love to try one of these for DB!

I really liked the original WA for DB; this one is very good as well.

 

[bass4u]

Too bad the 2x12 is a 4 ohm cabinet. If there was an 8 ohm version I would buy two of them!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Sell a kidney on e-bay. Some buyers do home removal right in your bath tub!

Sell a kidney on e-bay. Some buyers do home removal right in your bath tub!

Oh hell no! I went through the wringer to get all the stones cleared out. I’d have to ask way more than anyone’s willing to pay. You can have my kidneys when you pull them from my cold, dead body cavity.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Too bad the 2x12 is a 4 ohm cabinet. If there was an 8 ohm version I would buy two of them!

Get a 2 Ohm amp like any if the current Mesa heads.

 

[Jim C]

Not true, the different parameters of a different tube type (independent of the all too often quoted "gain factor") can impact both tone and feel depending on the circuit, and it doesn't apply solely to "gain stages".

I stand corrected.
Do you think the WD800 will be as sensitive to tube rolling as the WA?
I've spent some time rolling tubes and can name 5 amps that changing the pre-amp tube(s) made no difference in tonality.

The WA was the most sensitive and in a good way.

 

[Chef]

All the subway heads, and the new walkabout all support 2 ohms. So no problem, with those

Too bad the 2x12 is a 4 ohm cabinet. If there was an 8 ohm version I would buy two of them!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

“Need a license, too much power for the speakers etc.”

I used to regularly use a 3600 watt QSC power amp with speakers that were always less than that.

I now regularly use 800 watt amps with small cabs that are rated for half that.
So far this has never been a problem.
I just don’t dime everything in those circumstances.

You have the equiv. of an amp CDL, so not a problem.

 

[bass4u]

Get a 2 Ohm amp like any if the current Mesa heads.

Not interested in a new amp......unless Mesa made a 800 watt small digital power amp for bass. I have good preamp pedals I use to shape my sound.