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New Tech 21 VT Bass 300 Head!

#201
tech21nyc said:
I don't believe I said a Digital or class D amp had any inherent problem. It was more of an explanation of the difference between a conventional solid state power amp and one that is using a switching power supply. They sound fine but don't think that if you are using one and getting distortion that it is coming from the power amp. They aren't meant for that. We chose to use our power amp because it has a record of long term reliability and was designed for bass guitar. It is not a PA amp with a limiter circuit in it. This is why it can deal with the peaking transients that a bass guitar will produce.
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I may have missed them, but I've yet to see any TalkBass posts which criticize the reliability of Tech 21 products.

BTW. The VT Bass (original version) I had for a while simply blew away the B.K. Butler Real Tube pedal I've owned since '91! :eek:

The only tone shaping feature the VT' lacks IMHO is a blend control to restore low note definition & dynamics when the VT Bass is being used for heavy Marshall-on-ten type overdrive. It is for this reason that I'm now eying a Para Driver DI instead of a VT Bass Deluxe.
 
#207
Regarding the blend control (or lack thereof) on our VT Bass 300, the amp has the ability to use either channel independently or to use both at the same time. Therefore you could set one channel for a very clean sound and the other for more grit. If you require the sound of just a straight bass signal mixed with our SansAmp tube emulation our Landmark 300 head would be the better choice.

A word on output power. There are many terms like peak, rms, music power etc. The specifications a manufacturer gives are based on their own testing criteria and can't always be used for direct comparison. We test our amps with a sine wave into a 4 ohm load. They will deliver 300 watts of clean rms power. Two amps with identical power ratings from different manufacturers might be very different in real use.Wattage is electronic power but still has to be converted to actual audio. Your speaker sensitivity, amount of speakers, cabinet design and input source will all come into play when determining actual output power that you can physically hear. To double your wattage you need to multiply by the power of 10. In other words a 100 watt amp is 2 times as loud as a 10 watt amp. To double the power of a 300 watt amp you will need a 3000 watt amp. When you increase the power from say 300 to 600 watts and use the same testing methods you will gain an increase of usable headroom or about 3db. There are many variables. Like if you use a 2/10 or 4/10 cab.
 
#208
honestly, most of you all sound like you play way too damn loud! in over 35 years of playing bass, many of those in bands where we were extremely loud and had little or no pa support, i have never needed over 300w, and that was playing clean in an svt/810 so don't even try that "tube watts" malarkey ;)
 
#211
JimmyM said:
played 5-string through an svt/810 for about 3 years and never wanted for volume.
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Ok, an 8x10 is also averaging 3-6db more sensitive than my cab, and is 4 ohms.

So probably at least 6db louder with a Tech 21 VT head as my cabinet, realistically more like 10db if you figure in the midrange advantage.

You're overlooking all of us guys who get by with an 8 ohm high excursion cabinet...takes twice as many watts to get even into the same volume park as the 8x10, more like four times as many. This grows more pronounced with the 5'er.

I had issues getting the Mesa 400+ through an 8 ohm 2x12 (high excursion, low sensitivity Delta 12 LFs) loud enough without muddiness on the B-string.
 
#213
JimmyM said:
then i guess the vt bass amp isn't for you. it's perfectly ok if not everything on the market centers around you, rp ;)
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I'm not saying it does, just that there is a legitimate case for more than 150 watts @ 8 ohms / 300 watts @ 4 ohms in a bass head. Enough so that I doubt you will see any market penetration with a 20lb head with that wattage (unless it's like 400 bucks).
 
#214
I'm confused why every amp is suppose to be made for everybody? It seems that this head is geared for a certain segment of bass players. If it doesn't fit your needs stick with what you have/look for something else. Stop trying to get people to stick their square pegs in your round hole.

I for one an looking forward to this coming out. I also think it's great that the manufacturer is on here to answer questions/concerns about the product.
 
#216
maevinj said:
I'm confused why every amp is suppose to be made for everybody? It seems that this head is geared for a certain segment of bass players. If it doesn't fit your needs stick with what you have/look for something else. Stop trying to get people to stick their square pegs in your round hole.
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Do you really think it would work any worse for most people if it had a 500 watt class D power section instead of a 300 watt analog power section that weighs 4 times as much?

I doubt the cost would be much different either.

All I'm saying is I think that'd be more marketable and appeal to more people. You can disagree but I'm not trying to force anything...just giving an extremely informed opinion.
 
#218
rpsands said:
Do you really think it would work any worse for most people if it had a 500 watt class D power section instead of a 300 watt analog power section that weighs 4 times as much?
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it could. digital clips hard and immediately. if you're running a vt tone with a lot of distortion, you could get more out of it past the rms. honest to god, though, unless you're playing doom, who the hell turns up that loud? you'd have to have the least sensitive cab on earth to need to turn up that loud. and trust me, nobody with a really non-sensitive cab is going to buy a vt anything. they're going to buy prissy super clean stuff ;)
 
#219
JimmyM said:
it could. digital clips hard and immediately. if you're running a vt tone with a lot of distortion, you could get more out of it past the rms. honest to god, though, unless you're playing doom, who the hell turns up that loud? you'd have to have the least sensitive cab on earth to need to turn up that loud. and trust me, nobody with a really non-sensitive cab is going to buy a vt anything. they're going to buy prissy super clean stuff ;)
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The Mb500 at least does not clip in a fashion that is any worse than the analog GK amps, in my opinion (having owned both).

I have run craploads of distortion through it, of varying degrees.
 
#220
tech21nyc said:
Allow me to respond to some of your questions and comments.

The 300 watt analog power amp in the VT Bass 300 can actually exceed it's rated output and even if it starts to clip it will do so in a musical way much like a tube amp.It was meant to be as loud as an SVT without the weight. This amp will more than hang with any loud drummer and like most bass amps is meant to be your onstage monitor or your primary sound in the average club or venue. If you are playing on a concert stage you will more than likely be using a bigger rig and be pumped through the PA as well.

The difference between an analog amp and a digital amp in terms of power is that a digital amp cannot exceed it's rated output as digital distortion is completely unusable. This is why digital amps have built in limiters. They also don't produce transients in the same way a well designed analog amp can. The benefit of digital just like analog solid state is lighter weight and a smaller amp. We all know how much an SVT head weighs.

QUOTE]

As I said, I think this amp is geared towards a certain segment of Bass players and Tech 21 chose the components accordingly. It's obvious, that this product isn't for you.
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