Double Bass New to DB Amplification - Tips?

[JeffHolt]

Hi all,
This is my first post on this forum, and I've read through many of the newbie links. I appreciate any responses!

I've played electric bass for over 15 years with a little upright bass playing mixed in. I recently took the plunge and purchased my own upright bass, which is not the greatest bass in the world but suits me fine for now (it's chinese-made, was purchased on craigslist, and will certainly not be the last DB I ever buy - but it's good for getting me back into shape on the instrument).

I play in a 6-person bluegrass band and want to start using the upright instead of the electric. I currently play my electric through a Fender Rumble 100 solid state combo amp or an Ampeg RocketBass 60 watt combo amp, also solid state.

Reading the newbie links actually made me pretty confused about how to go about amplifying the upright for gigs. Basically, I don't want to put a ton of effort or money into this bass because it's already not that great. I just want to be able to thump around in the 1st position while my band plays live. We typically mic all the other instruments with SM57's.

Are there any recommendations for a bassist who just wants to amp the bass, have it still sound basically like an upright, without a lot of complicated mechanics? Is there an affordable (under $200) microphone OR pickup/preamp combination that would work in this situation?

Again, thanks so much. I read through a bit of this forum and you all seem very knowledgeable about this.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[RustyAxe]

I'm playing my Strunal 50/4 ply through an Ampeg BA112 combo. I use an [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (about $140). The pickup is hot enough to go direct to the amp (no outboard preamp needed). I use the amp's DI out (1/4" line level) to go to the board, and use the combo as my stage monitor. I cut the highs and mids, boost the bass. No FX. No problem with my bluegrass band or any other, really.

Your Fender amp should work fine ... turn off the tweeter if that's possible.

 

[moles]

If your band is miking up all the other instruments, they're probably quiet enough on stage for you to do the same. Take a look at the poor man's sm57 mounting thread. It works pretty well. I use a small microphone drum mounting clip on the edge of an f-hole sometimes for more placement options. You won't really need an amp if the venues you play at have a decent monitor system. If you're using the band's own small pa, you could try running a line out back to your amp as a self monitor - that would be the simplest way.

As far as pickups go, I'd also consider a K&K Bassmax. It doesn't get much love from jazz players, but it's got a good thumpy sound that would be cool with Bluegrass/Country etc. It's easy to mount in your bridge, and get a good fit - from what I hear the Rev Solo II needs to really be fit precisely to bring out it's best tone.
There are all kinds of pickup options - I'm sure you read through all the newbie links, and some of the other threads on the topic

 

[JeffHolt]

Thanks, both of you, for your suggestions. I've heard of both Revolution and K&K Bassmax pickups during my research so it's nice to hear people have actually used them. Also, it's a relief to know that the Upton pickup may not need a preamp.

Moles - do you think I'd need a preamp for the K&K Bassmax pickup?

We don't currently have our own PA as a band. We use the house PA, which sometimes isn't even enough to support mic'ing 5 instruments, so we have to sometimes run mics through an extra amp. This happens especially in coffeehouses.

I'm really not sure if it's a better idea to use the bass amp with the upright bass or to go into the PA with the rest of my band. I'm currently the only player who uses an amp, because I'm the only one with an electric instrument. No one else has pickups on their instruments.

Thanks for your help! This will help me narrow my search a little!

 

[Dave Irwin]

I use the bassmax for Jazz and Western Swing and I like it fine. Whether or not you need a pre-amp depends on the amp. Search for threads re: input impedence.
I guess the higher input impedence amps require the pre-amp.
I play through an Acoustic Image Contra and no pre-amp is needed.

BTW, check out this link Bob sells the bassmax and matching pre-amp for $178

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Ric Vice]

Hi all,
I recently took the plunge and purchased my own upright bass, which is not the greatest bass in the world but suits me fine for now (it's chinese-made, was purchased on craigslist, and will certainly not be the last DB I ever buy - but it's good for getting me back into shape on the instrument).

Jeff,
Although they will probably cringe at you when you bring it in (hopefully not), you should probably take the bass to a repair man and get the bridge replaced or refitted with adjusters, check the sound post, and look at the neck. A properly adjusted instrument is way easier to "thump around on" and it will produce more sound. This would be the first thing I would recommend. But if the bridge has to be replaced, then it's going to cost more than the $200.00 cut and fit a new bridge.

......... I currently play my electric through a Fender Rumble 100 solid state combo amp or an Ampeg RocketBass 60 watt combo amp, also solid state.

The Ampeg is probably the better choice than the Fender Rumble. If it has an input impedance that's less than 1 meg ohm then you should definitely invest in one of F Deck's HPF buffer Preamp when you get some spare change. It's kind of a swiss army knife for tone and it's very reasonably priced.

............. I just want to be able to thump around in the 1st position while my band plays live. We typically mic all the other instruments with SM57's.

You could definitely use one of those 57's to Mic your bass and run it into the amp, but it will be sensitive to placement and feedback issues. It's also a little harder to hear the instrument and you have to be able to pull a sound out of the instrument.

Are there any recommendations for a bassist who just wants to amp the bass, have it still sound basically like an upright, without a lot of complicated mechanics? Is there an affordable (under $200) microphone OR pickup/preamp combination that would work in this situation?

I think that the Fishman Full Circle would work nicely and it's within your price range.

Again, thanks so much. I read through a bit of this forum and you all seem very knowledgeable about this.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[JeffHolt]

Thanks again for the great replies. I'm looking into the k&k bassmax pickup, but have to think about this a little more. All of your answers have given me a lot to consider.

Ric, the first thing I did was take the bass to a luthier I know and boy did they cringe! It's definitely playable now and in pretty decent condition. As I said before, it's not going to be the last bass I ever buy.

Thanks!

 

[Bass]

I use the Bassmax and like it. It's an easy installation and you should be able to find one used at a very reasonable price. You could just plug in and go, no problem. But you might also consider pairing the Bassmax with F-Deck's pre-amp.

 

[drurb]

Essentially all of the piezo pickups discussed on this site provide the best response when they "look into" an impedance of 1 Mohm or greater. Pre-amps for piezos function as buffer amps to provide this load rather than stages that provide any necessary boost in voltage. That is, piezos are usually "hot" enough (have sufficient voltage) to drive boards and typical amps without the need for any additional gain. The pre-amp stages of many of the amps discussed here have the necessary high-impedance inputs. Plug a piezo into a lower impedance input (e.g., 10 kohms) and you end up with a "honky" mid-range sound that lacks low end.

What many pre-amp stages do not provide (and what fdeck's little gem does), is a high-pass filter (HPF) that blocks the infrasonic frequencies that can be generated by a piezo pickup. These very low frequencies can rob the amp of precious power and drive speaker cones (especially those in ported cabinets) crazy. A search of the term "infrasonic" in this forum will provide you with more information than you may want to know! By the way, the input impedance of fdeck's pre-amp/HPF is a very comfortable 10 Mohms.

Finally, although the BassMax is certainly easier to fit than the Rev Solo, I always found the BassMax to make any bass I've had it on sound like a giant BG. In my experience anyway, the Rev. Solo delivers a far more natural sound. It's as close to "my bass but bigger" that I've ever gotten with a bridge-wing pickup.
YMMV

I guess the higher input impedence amps require the pre-amp.

Actually, it's the amps having low input impedance that would require the use of a pre-amp with a piezo.

As for K&K pre-amps, check out post #10 here.

fdeck's pre-amp/HPF is an extremely well-designed, low-noise device with plenty of dynamic range. In addition, the price makes it one of the best deals out there.

 

[JeffHolt]

This is all interesting information. I'm still researching/experimenting on this stuff.

I pick up the Barcus Berry pickup and preamp from a local store to try out. This is the first pickup I've ever purchase, and I am most likely going to return it. I just wanted to see what any pickup sounded like.

I can't find much information about this pickup on this forum. Has anyone used it before? I think it sounds ok, but am a little disappointed, as it cost $250. I only had about 15 minutes to really fool around with it though, so perhaps I just need to spend more time with it. I'm still thinking I might want the K&K Bass Max.

 

[Uncletoad]

I never got a sound out of the Barcus Berry I liked. In order my favorite pickups are:

Fishman Full Circle, The Realist, The Rev Solo, The Bass Max, The Underwood.

They are all under $250.

I haven't tried everything.

 

[mstclairmiller]

You could always go for the single big condenser mic trick - whoever in the band has the bank account with the most 'headroom' buys the best big condenser mic you can afford, and just stand around it and play! Move in a step to take a solo. Probably not much help to you, but that is how we amplify our bluegrass band, and it has got to be the funnest way of playing acoustic instruments. At venues with really crap PA systems, it would probably pay to shell out for a decent graphic eq to tame the feedback, and generally just accept the fact that you are never going to get loud like this, but you will genuinely get "the band, only louder" sound.

 

[renejaime]

i can't remember who wrote this... i wanna say uncletoad but I found this pretty insightful

Several Considerations;
1. The onstage bass volume should be low, feel the low end and presence of the bass through the PA.
2. Use the onstage system with mids and highs only as a personal monitor to stay in tune.
3. Dial in the front of house sound without any on stage sound whatsoever and then turn up your rig just enough to play in tune when everything else kicks in.
4. Try to get whatever personal monitors you use up off the floor near your ear and away from the body of the bass.
5. Stay well behind the main speakers and well away from the subs.
6. Keep the bass out of the floor wedges and stay as far away from any on stage speakers as you can.
7. Use the rubber stopper on the endpin and don't stick the pin directly into the floor.
8. Experiment with phase reversal on the preamp.
9. Experiment with high pass filters on the preamp. (try the fdeck preamp!)
10. Stay away from compressors in your rig or on your channel in the mains.
11. Place a foam wedge or towel between the body of the bass and the tailpiece if you still have feedback.
12. Weave a strip of velcro through the afterlength of the strings between the bridge and tail piece.
13. If there is no PA and you are trying to get your rig as loud as you can put it in front of you pointing out at the crowd. You'll hear it just fine and it won't feed back near as much as if it's behind you or beside you.