New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

[Jazz Ad]

The bypassed signal is degraded. The tone suck made it useless for me as a substitute for my pedalboard.

Your ears are much better than mine. I made A/B recording tests between the bypass mode of the B3 and clean signal. Never could hear a difference. The resolution, sampling frequencies and oversampling algorithms exceed the quality of most digital files and readers available.

 

[moles]

For the record, the buffers on the LS-2 are way less transparent than the bypass of the B3.

Quoting @Jazz Ad but in response to all re: the bypass suck/no-suck....

I really could hear a degradation in tone going through the B3, as best as I can recall... top end lost any articulation, and there was even some low end loss. There was no need to conduct any double-blind testing....it was that noticeable. My solution was to not use it in bypass - which was fine since I usually wanted a compressor on anyway. I know not if the bypassed tone is going through the converters or not, or if that signal path is the same for all the B3 based units (B3, B3n, MS-60B, B1on/onx). I now have a B1ON which is bloody terrible in that regard - and I'm assuming it's worse since it cost less. Maybe they're the same, who knows.

Keeping in mind that everyone's bass has different output levels, impedances, amps' inputs have different impedances, varying cable capacitances, and general tone needs - the difference that *you* hear may be mild-to-irrelevant or completely unuseable. The LS-2 ain't perfect, (on my rig, with my gear, the GT-10B beat it, and everything else I had at the time...) but I think that when you start throwing input impedances into the mix - "transparent" is going to be whatever colours your tone in the same way/amount as your amp input, which at the end of the day is probably a bit of a crap-shoot anyway.

Having said all that - I still use the B1ON of quickie gigs, or if I need to travel light, even though I bought it strictly as a headphone amp solution - and it's quite useable on stage. The BDDI model sounded cool at rehearsal last week. Bypassed tonal excellence becomes a moot point if the thing gets the job done for 60 bucks.

Sorry for the long...

 

[FuzzFacetious]

I run through a B3n and a B3 and I haven't noticed a difference (nor looked for one), but I get tones I like regardless.

At the end of the day, all the audience is going to hear is a thud thud boom of a bass (clean), a "loud" or fuzzy bass (with gain, OD,distortion etc), swirly/choppy bass (modulation) or echo-ing bass (if your reverb and/or delay are audible in the mix). No one is bothered about your high end or low end or anything, just the notes you play and how it fits the music as a whole. We love bass, but in a band, the bass is almost always the part that most people don't hear or can't hear, they mostly feel it or hear the over all effect of it, even I can't hear bass in many songs even when I'm watching the bassist go ape up and down the fretboard, the bass is important in the band, but it's like the woodglue in a nice piece of furniture, it's there, it's important, it holds everything together, but no one looks at it and says "wow, look at that lovely glue", they hear the guitars when there's a catchy riff or solo, they listen to and sing along to the vocals and they often listen to the beat of the drums, but the bass almost always takes the back seat.

If you have super hearing and can hear a slight drop in treble that you can't fix with your amp, mixer, FRFR EQ, or whatever, if the effects are good enough to make you happy, who cares? I'm certain that 99% if not 100% of your audience don't, and even if you do, if you're a dedicated and professional musician, I'm sure it's not enough to make you play less well or write anything less awesome than you would without it in your chain, this is assuming that there IS any [negative] impact on your tone to begin with.

So, if you're curious about it, go try it!

BTW, some of the recent posts are dangerous, you'll make Zoom think "we can't keep selling our good stuff so cheap, because it's making people think it must be bad" and they might raise their prices CAREFUL!

 

[smeet]

Who said worse? It might be different, yes. Worse? You won't know until you try. I'm thinking if it will do most of what you need, and do it well, AND you can get a sound that works for you for the "just grab the smaller board" gigs, win/win.

Win/win would be good. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[Spblat]

...the bass is almost always the part that most people don't hear or can't hear, they mostly feel it or hear the over all effect of it...

Well said. I especially feel this way about pub gigs. I feel like I'm making the very *air* thicker when I'm playing properly and my sound is right.

 

[Jantelagen]

I run through a B3n and a B3 and I haven't noticed a difference (nor looked for one), but I get tones I like regardless.

At the end of the day, all the audience is going to hear is a thud thud boom of a bass (clean), a "loud" or fuzzy bass (with gain, OD,distortion etc), swirly/choppy bass (modulation) or echo-ing bass (if your reverb and/or delay are audible in the mix). No one is bothered about your high end or low end or anything, just the notes you play and how it fits the music as a whole. We love bass, but in a band, the bass is almost always the part that most people don't hear or can't hear, they mostly feel it or hear the over all effect of it, even I can't hear bass in many songs even when I'm watching the bassist go ape up and down the fretboard, the bass is important in the band, but it's like the woodglue in a nice piece of furniture, it's there, it's important, it holds everything together, but no one looks at it and says "wow, look at that lovely glue", they hear the guitars when there's a catchy riff or solo, they listen to and sing along to the vocals and they often listen to the beat of the drums, but the bass almost always takes the back seat.

If you have super hearing and can hear a slight drop in treble that you can't fix with your amp, mixer, FRFR EQ, or whatever, if the effects are good enough to make you happy, who cares? I'm certain that 99% if not 100% of your audience don't, and even if you do, if you're a dedicated and professional musician, I'm sure it's not enough to make you play less well or write anything less awesome than you would without it in your chain, this is assuming that there IS any [negative] impact on your tone to begin with.

So, if you're curious about it, go try it!

BTW, some of the recent posts are dangerous, you'll make Zoom think "we can't keep selling our good stuff so cheap, because it's making people think it must be bad" and they might raise their prices CAREFUL!

I agree that "It's also about the feel for live playing, which can be quite different from the player's point of view (compared to what the audience hears)." ... Therefore, I must be in the 1% when I'm in the audience because that is not at all what I'm hearing or paying attention to. More telling is when the bass does stand out and the otherwise oblivious audience notices enough to compliment. When my Zon Sonus 5string or Warwick Thumb BO sound better and maintain their signature tone dry than through the b3n, its a negative. Just because the b3n works for others doesn't mean someone else that disagrees ears are wrong. I'd thought a thread for a product would be more objective. I acquired my gear for their sound, and I'm not going to tweak everything else around the b3n or any multifx unit because that's just adding to a already unwanted colored bypassed signal. Regardless of "resolution, sampling frequencies and oversampling algorithms exceed the quality of most digital files and readers available." its not true bypass, at least not yet. Some players need that if a product is going to work for their purposes

 

[jimfist]

The B3n and a TON of other gear out there (some very popular) would probably fail the technical purity tests.
I'm just of the opinion that something doesn't need to be technically perfect in order to be good or useful. It helps, but there's a reason for the saying "good enough for rock and roll".

If it floats your boat...for ANY reason....then great. Use the gear. If it doesn't...for ANY reason...great. Don't use it.

Simple. I really don't see much reason for discussion or extended argument either way.

JMHO.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

For the record, the buffers on the LS-2 are way less transparent than the bypass of the B3.

Ah, there goes that idea, then. There must be some line selector that is decent, though. I don't use one, hence my lack of appreciation of LS2 tone suck.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Oh the LS-2 is very decent, an industry standard for 20+ years used daily on many stages. It's just not so transparent.
There indeed are way cleaner line selectors and A/B loops. For a digital pedal like a B3n, a simple passive true bypass box will do the trick.

 

[Adeitxo]

When I have the chance to try the B3n (The store I ordered from seems to have a problem with the suplier) surely I will buy an a/b box. It's not such a bad idea (sorry for my English. It's been a while since I wrote something) to keep your clean bass sound.
While we wait for a new effects or patches to be downloadable from Zoom America's website, check this out.
First a video of patches done by Ryosuke Korenaga who plays in a band called Ama no parade, second an explanation of the patches (use google translate) and third, download from Zoom Japan.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
B3n Multi-Effects Processor

 

[andreas_flf]

I just got my new B3n. Yet, I have not yet replaced my modified B3s and MS60Bs. They are well integrated into my setup and I need first to get the B3n fully going before I am willing to replace my B3s from my proven setups.

First impression is that the B3n is indeed quite a big, I'd say even very big step forward compared to the B3. IMHO there are only a few drawbacks that may not matter for others at all.

First I believe the idea of the two basic modes (MEMORY vs. STOMP) is excellent and there is no need now to modify the B3n as I saw absolutely necessary for my B3s for gigging (see B3 modfication with stompbar or B3 modfication with stompbar #741, page 38 as used on Invalid Link Removed). Zoom's solution to this problem with having 6 stomp buttons and the two modes is excellent and opens up many more avenues that did not exist with the B3. I like in particular also the fact that in STOMP mode I can read which patch is on, even without bending down to my feet. There was nothing comparable on the B3 and during gigs I often found myself to use my stompbar to switch back and forth between two patches just to make sure I was currently on the right one (the B3 shows the patch name when activating a patch, but for a few seconds only). The B3n solution showing the patch names all the time is like heaven compared to the B3.
--- The only drawback I found in STOMP mode is that on my B3n all bank switches generate a short distorting whistling sound. For me this means a bank switch in the middle of a song is a complete no go. Do others get that too? Or does anyone know a fix for this?

Second I am very happy that the B3n offers up to 7 slots for effects. On Invalid Link Removed I have currently in series a MS60B and a B3. The MS60B serves me to overcome the limitation of the B3 (offering only 3 effect slots). I typically use the MS60B for ZNR noise reduction. Now, BTW, as a quick comment on some of the concerns others raised above, in blind tests I cannot hear a difference whether the signal is once more AD-DA converted or remains digital within a unit such as the B3, B3n, or MS-60B. Therefore I believe such concerns can really be dropped today and one can easily daisy chain digital effects without risking to get noise or other signal deterioration, of course only if all settings are made optimal (e.g. unity gain at every stage, making good use of headroom etc.). Nevertheless, being able to switch now patches within the same unit with a single stomp push, is a setup I very much more prefer. Thus I guess I will soon replace happily my MS-60B-->B3 setup to avoid having to hit two stomps (stompbar AND MS-60B) when switching patches. On last tour in one gig I forgot to turn off the ZNR of the MS-60B for a patch on the B3 using also ZNR. During a quiet part of the song two ZNRs in series were really too much of noise reduction and I could not play that passage at all or then too loud (was quite embarrassing actually and my band mates were not happy with me at all ).
--- There is also a small drawback that comes with the much bigger flexibility of the B3n: Amp and cabinet simulations use two slots, while in the B3 they occupy only 1 slot. Moreover, I use my pedal FP02 for volume control in almost all my patches (MIN 75, MAX 100, the MIN being always at unity gain) for a small reserve boost during gigging. Again in the B3n this uses up a slot (out of the 7) while the B3 throws this in "for free". But all in all as I said before, I very much prefer the flexibility of the B3n. Well done Zoom engineers!

These my main initial impressions and my first attempt to summarize them a bit, hoping this might be of some interest to some of you, notably to those interested in comparing the B3 with the B3n.

Cheers,
Andreas flf

P.S.: Perhaps I might have one of my stomp-bar enhanced B3s for sale soon (but not sure yet by when and whether at all, the B3 with a stomp-bar being still a very fine unit ). Will see...

 

[CharlieC]

...The only drawback I found in STOMP mode is that on my B3n all bank switches generate a short distorting whistling sound. For me this means a bank switch in the middle of a song is a complete no go. Do others get that too? Or does anyone know a fix for this?...

Mine does not do this, but I believe what you are experiencing is the result of not yet having turned on "PRESELECT" (see page 24 in the user manual.)

Congrats on the purchase!

 

[SirMjac28]

Mine will be here this week I got the expression pedal also

 

[SirMjac28]

Mine does not do this, but I believe what you are experiencing is the result of not yet having turned on "PRESELECT" (see page 24 in the user manual.)

Congrats on the purchase!

That's good to know I was getting worried with @andreas_ flf's post I hate noise of any kind.

 

[SirMjac28]

I just got my new B3n. Yet, I have not yet replaced my modified B3s and MS60Bs. They are well integrated into my setup and I need first to get the B3n fully going before I am willing to replace my B3s from my proven setups.

First impression is that the B3n is indeed quite a big, I'd say even very big step forward compared to the B3. IMHO there are only a few drawbacks that may not matter for others at all.

First I believe the idea of the two basic modes (MEMORY vs. STOMP) is excellent and there is no need now to modify the B3n as I saw absolutely necessary for my B3s for gigging (see B3 modfication with stompbar or B3 modfication with stompbar #741, page 38 as used on Invalid Link Removed). Zoom's solution to this problem with having 6 stomp buttons and the two modes is excellent and opens up many more avenues that did not exist with the B3. I like in particular also the fact that in STOMP mode I can read which patch is on, even without bending down to my feet. There was nothing comparable on the B3 and during gigs I often found myself to use my stompbar to switch back and forth between two patches just to make sure I was currently on the right one (the B3 shows the patch name when activating a patch, but for a few seconds only). The B3n solution showing the patch names all the time is like heaven compared to the B3.
--- The only drawback I found in STOMP mode is that on my B3n all bank switches generate a short distorting whistling sound. For me this means a bank switch in the middle of a song is a complete no go. Do others get that too? Or does anyone know a fix for this?

Second I am very happy that the B3n offers up to 7 slots for effects. On Invalid Link Removed I have currently in series a MS60B and a B3. The MS60B serves me to overcome the limitation of the B3 (offering only 3 effect slots). I typically use the MS60B for ZNR noise reduction. Now, BTW, as a quick comment on some of the concerns others raised above, in blind tests I cannot hear a difference whether the signal is once more AD-DA converted or remains digital within a unit such as the B3, B3n, or MS-60B. Therefore I believe such concerns can really be dropped today and one can easily daisy chain digital effects without risking to get noise or other signal deterioration, of course only if all settings are made optimal (e.g. unity gain at every stage, making good use of headroom etc.). Nevertheless, being able to switch now patches within the same unit with a single stomp push, is a setup I very much more prefer. Thus I guess I will soon replace happily my MS-60B-->B3 setup to avoid having to hit two stomps (stompbar AND MS-60B) when switching patches. On last tour in one gig I forgot to turn off the ZNR of the MS-60B for a patch on the B3 using also ZNR. During a quiet part of the song two ZNRs in series were really too much of noise reduction and I could not play that passage at all or then too loud (was quite embarrassing actually and my band mates were not happy with me at all ).
--- There is also a small drawback that comes with the much bigger flexibility of the B3n: Amp and cabinet simulations use two slots, while in the B3 they occupy only 1 slot. Moreover, I use my pedal FP02 for volume control in almost all my patches (MIN 75, MAX 100, the MIN being always at unity gain) for a small reserve boost during gigging. Again in the B3n this uses up a slot (out of the 7) while the B3 throws this in "for free". But all in all as I said before, I very much prefer the flexibility of the B3n. Well done Zoom engineers!

These my main initial impressions and my first attempt to summarize them a bit, hoping this might be of some interest to some of you, notably to those interested in comparing the B3 with the B3n.

Cheers,
Andreas flf

P.S.: Perhaps I might have one of my stomp-bar enhanced B3s for sale soon (but not sure yet by when and whether at all, the B3 with a stomp-bar being still a very fine unit ). Will see...

Nice review thanks for the good info

 

[smeet]

OK, I ordered one. You are all now officially responsible for my future happiness or lack thereof.

How many of you are using the/a expression pedal with the B3n? How much does it add to the usefulness?
Which pedals will work best with it, is Zoom's own FP02M the best bet?

 

[Spblat]

OK, I ordered one. You are all now officially responsible for my future happiness or lack thereof.

How many of you are using the/a expression pedal with the B3n? How much does it add to the usefulness?
Which pedals will work best with it, is Zoom's own FP02M the best bet?

I used a Moog EP3 with mine for a little while but decided not to include it in my setup. It worked fine, but you can't assign the pedal to a particular parameter on a particular effect. Volume, wah, pitch bend, that's about it.

 

[smeet]

I used a Moog EP3 with mine for a little while but decided not to include it in my setup. It worked fine, but you can't assign the pedal to a particular parameter on a particular effect. Volume, wah, pitch bend, that's about it.

So the Zoom pedal can be assigned to a particular parameter? How do they manage that, is there a digital connection?

 

[jimfist]

So the Zoom pedal can be assigned to a particular parameter? How do they manage that, is there a digital connection?

no...canNOT be assigned. You have to use an effect that is from the PEDAL category only, which at the moment includes volume, wah, pitch shift. I'm expecting ZOOM will offer more varieties via updates...soon...we hope...

 

[Jantelagen]

The B3n and a TON of other gear out there (some very popular) would probably fail the technical purity tests.
I'm just of the opinion that something doesn't need to be technically perfect in order to be good or useful. It helps, but there's a reason for the saying "good enough for rock and roll".

If it floats your boat...for ANY reason....then great. Use the gear. If it doesn't...for ANY reason...great. Don't use it.

Simple. I really don't see much reason for discussion or extended argument either way.

JMHO.

Oh. The dude asked about it specifically and it was a major concern for me as well. So, that's the "reason"