Newbie fretless advice needed

[bassstrangler]

Honestly, if you prefer the sound of rounds then just use them. Unless you utilize some kind of death grip then you shouldn't need to plane the board for years. It's not like epoxy and ebony do not require a planing after years of use either.

I've felt that since day one of having this MIM Fretless Jazz that it sounds flat (no pun intended). I don't know if I prefer rounds as I've never used them. I'm not overly concerned with wear on the board, just want a better sounding bass. I got a fretless simply for two reasons, Mick Karn and David J. No punch in my sound, just flat. I understand my bass isn't theirs and they had different models and brands and techniques, but no matter how many knobs I twiddle it just sounds meh. I've seriously considered selling it and sticking with what I know sounds good, even my fretted basses sound good with flats, chrome, steels...I string with a variety to get options. This thing just sounds bland and flat.

 

[40Hz]

What are "flats rounds"?

I think there's a period missing between the word flats and rounds in the sentence that's puzzling you. It's really two sentences.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I've felt that since day one of having this MIM Fretless Jazz that it sounds flat (no pun intended). I don't know if I prefer rounds as I've never used them. I'm not overly concerned with wear on the board, just want a better sounding bass. I got a fretless simply for two reasons, Mick Karn and David J. No punch in my sound, just flat. I understand my bass isn't theirs and they had different models and brands and techniques, but no matter how many knobs I twiddle it just sounds meh. I've seriously considered selling it and sticking with what I know sounds good, even my fretted basses sound good with flats, chrome, steels...I string with a variety to get options. This thing just sounds bland and flat.

Still using the stock pickups?

 

[bassstrangler]

Yes, but they're the same pickups I have on my fretted Jazz which sounds killer.

 

[tfer]

Addendum: to my earlier point about this place not bring a reference work- if you spend some time looking around TB, you'll find an awful lot of personal opinion and individual preference masquerading as established "fact," a good deal of outdated information, a bit of silly nonsense, and also some stuff that is just flat out wrong. So I wouldn't be too gung-ho on treating this place as a canonical reference for all things bass. It's really just a place where you have a good chance of finding some real gold if you ask the right questions.

The trick is knowing how to separate the good stuff out from the dross. And that only comes with experience.

I think the name on the tin says what it's about: TalkBass. We're talking about bass here. Not compiling an encyclopedia on it.

Exactly. One of the biggest myths regarding fretless fingerboards, is that Indian Rosewood is somehow soft.

Wood is tested for hardness by using the Janka scale.

The higher the number the harder the wood. These ratings were determined using the Janka Hardness Test which measures the side hardness measure of the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter into the wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear.

Invalid Link Removed

Brazillian ebony is incredibly hard, with a rating of 3220.

Indian rosewood is BARELY softer, with a rating 3170...

The Janka Hardness Test for Hardwoods

For some reason, the myth that roundwound strings will shred a rosewood board persists, while ebony is seen to be forged iron yet the differences between the two are barely worth mentioning.

With the worldwide shortage in ebony, I'll gladly take a beautiful rosewood board over any synthetic like Ebanol.

 

[Sixgunn]

I think there's a period missing between the word flats and rounds in the sentence that's puzzling you. It's really two sentences.

I know. I was just pointing out the irony. Yeah, rounds are "stupid".

 

[bassstrangler]

Good point. The newer ones do all seem to mute the output don't they? In which case a headstock tuner might be a better choice if you don't have a splitter or a tuner-out or similar jack on your amp.

Ski jump?

 

[bassstrangler]

Exactly. One of the biggest myths regarding fretless fingerboards, is that Indian Rosewood is somehow soft.

Wood is tested for hardness by using the Janka scale.

The higher the number the harder the wood. These ratings were determined using the Janka Hardness Test which measures the side hardness measure of the force required to embed a .444 inch steel ball to half its diameter into the wood. This is one of the best measures of the ability of wood species to withstand denting and wear.

Invalid Link Removed

Brazillian ebony is incredibly hard, with a rating of 3220.

Indian rosewood is BARELY softer, with a rating 3170...

The Janka Hardness Test for Hardwoods

For some reason, the myth that roundwound strings will shred a rosewood board persists, while ebony is seen to be forged iron yet the differences between the two are barely worth mentioning.

With the worldwide shortage in ebony, I'll gladly take a beautiful rosewood board over any synthetic like Ebanol.

Where did you obtain your numbers, as they don't seem to have the Indian rosewood listed just rosewood at 1780. Not doubting you, just curious.

 

[bassstrangler]

Found it! Thanks for the Janka info offer!

 

[tfer]

Where did you obtain your numbers, as they don't seem to have the Indian rosewood listed just rosewood at 1780. Not doubting you, just curious.

2nd link:

The Janka Hardness Test for Hardwoods

The most comprehensive I could find.

 

[bassstrangler]

So am I safe to assume my MIM Jazz is Indian Rosewood?

 

[Marial]

Yes, but they're the same pickups I have on my fretted Jazz which sounds killer.

Fretless is a very different beast. I'm still researching pick ups for my fretless (I'm a big Karn fan too), along with preamps. I currently have a set of prototype/one-off pick ups in mine (Squier VM Jazz body/Warmoth neck) and an Aguilar OBP-2 preamp, but I'm considering Q-Tuner pick ups and an ACG preamp. Only cost is holding me back presently (and a budding analog synth addiction).

 

[Lee Moses]

A forum is not an electronic reference work. It's a conversation. So it doesn't matter if things get repeated. Do you walk up to a table in a restaurant where a discussion of the latest movie is taking place and say: "There's no need for you to be having this discussion. If you'd just Google the title, everything you want to know or say is up on the web already."

No?

Then don't be "that guy."

-----

Addendum: to my earlier point about this place not bring a reference work- if you spend some time looking around TB, you'll find an awful lot of personal opinion and individual preference masquerading as established "fact," a good deal of outdated information, a bit of silly nonsense, and also some stuff that is just flat out wrong. So I wouldn't be too gung-ho on treating this place as a canonical reference for all things bass. It's really just a place where you have a good chance of finding some real gold if you ask the right questions.

The trick is knowing how to separate the good stuff out from the dross. And that only comes with experience.

I think the name on the tin says what it's about: TalkBass. We're talking about bass here. Not compiling an encyclopedia on it.

What a great post. I've thought these basic thoughts several times, but never expressed them, at least not so clearly. I need to bookmark this for future reference.

 

[tfer]

So am I safe to assume my MIM Jazz is Indian Rosewood?

My instruments are using Indian rosewood because it is fairly plentiful. But, even the softer types of rosewood are still ridiculously hard. You'd have to be pretty hard on any fingerboard before any actual wear shows up - all strings will "polish" the wood underneath the strings, but that will have no affect on the playability at all.

Even the ebony fingerboard on my NXT EUB show signs of polishing.

 

[40Hz]

What a great post. I've thought these basic thoughts several times, but never expressed them, at least not so clearly. I need to bookmark this for future reference.

Thx.

I try not to be a "forum cop" or get all snarky about it. And if it comes across that way, I apologize. But I'm a mod on several forums outside of TB, and this is one of only two things that bugs me around here. In my experience, this "it's been discussed previously" thing is somewhat unique to TB.

IMO telling someone "it's already been discussed" is about as unhelpful as the people (on some of the tech forums I administer) who feel the need to scream "RTFM!!!" whenever somebody new asks an innocent question. I tend to come down pretty hard on that sort of thing when it happens on my turf if it's a repeat offender.

Since I'm just a civilian here, all I can do is gently chide somebody when I see it.

 

[spectorfreak]

flatwounds are stupid anyways.

Here, let me get you your helmet and flame retardant suit.

 

[bassstrangler]

There was only one way to find out if this would make the difference I needed. So I threw some rounds on it and Bam! Satisfied with the sound and especially the vibrato the rounds brought to the overall effect. Brighter, punchier and all around better tone. So thanks to OP for starting thread and the rest of you guys and gals throwing out suggestions.

I remember searching for an answer on strings once or twice before on the web and seeing advice saying your board will get chewed up and that's why they come with flats...

Thanks.

 

[AltGrendel]

I learned on and have unlined. I don't care about the "crutch" stuff and I'm not an unlined snob. For me, I just like the way they look

I'm an unlined snob, but only for me. Everyone else is free to play what they like.

 

[hintz]

Though its not fashionable on TB, I'm a strong proponent of a lined fretless fingerboard. Ignore the "training wheels" purist BS and give yourself some visual cues that will get you very close to accurate intonation right off the bat. Over time you will have to check position less and less, but they will always be there to help you out on double stops or big jumps. The audience will have no idea what kind of fingerboard you play, and could care less. All they will care about is does it sound IN TUNE!

My semi-annual lined fretless rant is now concluded. Please carry on. FWIW, I use GHS pressurewound on a Pedulla "glasskote" epoxy finish over ebony, shows very little wear over years of use.

On that note, I use stickers as "markers" on upright as well, you still gotta use your ears but hey it works for Edgar Meyer....

 

[Plutonium244]

Pretty surprising to me that regular rosewood rates as harder than any kind of maple. That seems contrary to what I've always been told, but conventional wisdom isn't always right.