Newbie fretless advice needed

[deste]

I always used half rounds on all my fretless basses. Always hated the sound of flats on my fretless when I would try them out.
The half rounds I used were DAddario 45 - 100 sets. I've recently changed my mind on using flats now and have switched to DAddario Chrome custom gauge 40 -100 sets. In other words, try whatever feels and sounds right to you, and stay open to the possibility that your preferences might change.

+1
I used rounds, then halfrounds, now I gladly use flats, the only thing that matters is the sound you want.

Playing fretless it's not impossible, you just have to be very careful with intonation especially at first.
Usually I suggest to study scales while singing along: it helps a lot (and not for fretless playing only).

 

[static0verdrive]

I recommend a lesson or two with a qualified instructor. Other than that, relax! Don't death-grip it... as soon as the string hits the fb, you need no further tension. My squier vm fretless has an ebanol fb and a couple of friends left some marks by pressing too hard (I had pressurewounds on it at the time) so I recommend flats until you're used to how little you actually need to press, then switch to whatever strings you want. I use La Bella Low Tension Flexible Flats and freakin' love 'em! All the thump, fun, and smoothness of flats, but with the brightness of steel - I have endless options for tone with my jazz pup volumes and tone knob

Relax, and have fun!

 

[EMoneySC2]

Though its not fashionable on TB, I'm a strong proponent of a lined fretless fingerboard. Ignore the "training wheels" purist BS and give yourself some visual cues that will get you very close to accurate intonation right off the bat. Over time you will have to check position less and less, but they will always be there to help you out on double stops or big jumps. The audience will have no idea what kind of fingerboard you play, and could care less. All they will care about is does it sound IN TUNE!

My semi-annual lined fretless rant is now concluded. Please carry on. FWIW, I use GHS pressurewound on a Pedulla "glasskote" epoxy finish over ebony, shows very little wear over years of use.

Just for fun and conversation, I'll say that the opposite has been true for me. HOWEVER, that is because I grew up playing violin. I found a lined board hard to work with because the intonation was never quite right to my ear, so I switched out to an unlined board and my playing is faster and more in pitch. I do much better just letting my hands find the right pitch.

To emphasize that, I'll say again that this is only possible for me because I played an unlined string instrument all through my youth.

 

[spade2you]

I still chuckle with how much guys worry about wear on their fretless basses. Most of them will play it once in a blue moon and probably eventually sell it. I could see worrying about wear if someone were playing that bass all the time for many years. That being said, flats on bare wood sound good as do rounds on bare wood, stabilized/hybrid wood, and coated fingerboards.

Just for fun and conversation, I'll say that the opposite has been true for me. HOWEVER, that is because I grew up playing violin. I found a lined board hard to work with because the intonation was never quite right to my ear, so I switched out to an unlined board and my playing is faster and more in pitch. I do much better just letting my hands find the right pitch.

To emphasize that, I'll say again that this is only possible for me because I played an unlined string instrument all through my youth.

I learned on unlined and didn't find it to be as daunting as some would imply on Talk Bass. If I can do something like unlined fretless, it is far from impossible and probably pretty easy. I have tried a few lined fretless basses and was really confused. My eyes wanted to play to the lines and my ears didn't like the intonation. Gary Willis has commented on where to play in relation to the line depending on where you are in the neck. Confusing. I'd rather not deal with them.

 

[40Hz]

Though its not fashionable on TB, I'm a strong proponent of a lined fretless fingerboard. Ignore the "training wheels" purist BS and give yourself some visual cues that will get you very close to accurate intonation right off the bat. Over time you will have to check position less and less, but they will always be there to help you out on double stops or big jumps. The audience will have no idea what kind of fingerboard you play, and could care less. All they will care about is does it sound IN TUNE!

My semi-annual lined fretless rant is now concluded. Please carry on. FWIW, I use GHS pressurewound on a Pedulla "glasskote" epoxy finish over ebony, shows very little wear over years of use.

+1

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a lined fingerboard. Many people find them helpful, and they have no effect on the sound of the instrument.

Most of the purists argue lined fingerboards are a "crutch" or "cheating" or "teach you bad habits." None of those assertions (and I call them assertions because there's nothing to back them up - so I won't dignify them by calling them 'arguments') holds up. Especially the one that says it's cheating. How can the word 'cheating' apply to anything when it comes to learning a musical instrument?

When pressed, most who take a stand for unlined necks will admit their preference is really more about the look of the thing. An unmarked neck just looks "cooler" to their eyes.

Don't get sucked into that debate. Just get the best instrument you can afford, heed some of the good advice others have offered previously, and start working on it.

Luck!

 

[40Hz]

IMO, the harder the fb the easier it is to intonate well. So ebony is a good choice. I struggle with a rosewood fretless board.

Glad somebody else thinks so too. I definitely think rosewood makes it more difficult to intonate a note correctly.

And here I was always thinking that it must just be a 'me' thing all these years.

 

[EMoneySC2]

+1

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a lined fingerboard. Many people find them helpful, and they have no effect on the sound of the instrument.

Most of the purists argue lined fingerboards are a "crutch" or "cheating" or "teach you bad habits." None of those assertions (and I call them assertions because there's nothing to back them up - so I won't dignify them by calling them 'arguments') holds up. Especially the one that says it's cheating. How can the word 'cheating' apply to anything when it comes to learning a musical instrument?

When pressed, most who take a stand for unlined necks will admit their preference is really more about the look of the thing. An unmarked neck just looks "cooler" to their eyes.

Don't get sucked into that debate. Just get the best instrument you can afford, heed some of the good advice others have offered previously, and start working on it.

Luck!

A lined board confuses the hell out of me because what I see VS what I hear isn't quite right, and I rely too much on the visual component which leads to bad intonation for me. I grew up playing violin and learning intonation by ear, so I'm not the "normal" case.

If you're a new fretless player and don't have significant experience on other fretless string instruments, definitely go for a lined fingerboard. If you do have a lot of fretless experience and are very confident in your ability to learn the instrument, unlined may work better for you.

 

[strictlybass_ic]

Flats are not required, but I do prefer them and you might too.

 

[bassplace]

Glad somebody else thinks so too. I definitely think rosewood makes it more difficult to intonate a note correctly.

And here I was always thinking that it must just be a 'me' thing all these years.

My ACG with its acrylic impregnated fb is wonderful. Highly recommend

 

[spade2you]

Most of the purists argue lined fingerboards are a "crutch" or "cheating" or "teach you bad habits." None of those assertions (and I call them assertions because there's nothing to back them up - so I won't dignify them by calling them 'arguments') holds up. Especially the one that says it's cheating. How can the word 'cheating' apply to anything when it comes to learning a musical instrument?

Purists? Most are just guys who like to talk. The real fretless purists don't really argue about lined vs. unlined because they realize that most grabbed one and learned on it.

 

[40Hz]

A lined board confuses the hell out of me because what I see VS what I hear isn't quite right, and I rely too much on the visual component which leads to bad intonation for me. I grew up playing violin and learning intonation by ear, so I'm not the "normal" case.

If you're a new fretless player and don't have significant experience on other fretless string instruments, definitely go for a lined fingerboard. If you do have a lot of fretless experience and are very confident in your ability to learn the instrument, unlined may work better for you.

I started on upright so I never cared one way or another. But it's true that many a beginner has benefited enormously from a lined fingerboard. I usually recommend a new player start with one. Just not around here. Because it brings out the worst in some people whenever the topic of lined vs unlined comes up. And no prospective fretless player should have to listen to that sort of nonsense.

FWIW, I was in GC one time, noodling around with a fretless (Warwick Corvette) and some guy came up and said he always wished he could play fretless. I asked him how long he'd been playing bass. He said several years. I told him he already could play it and got him to sit down and try it out. All I told him was that he more or less knew where the notes were since he had been playing as long as he had. All he had to do was refine it a bit and put in some regular and focused practice to get it down.

In about 5 minutes (with a few suggestions) he was getting a respectable I-IV-V pattern that was (mostly) in tune. And that was on an unlined neck. He was amazed he could get as close to correct intonation as he could, And it was nowhere near as hard as he had been led to believe. If the neck were lined I have no doubt he would have been even closer.

So yes. Definitely. Use whatever works. There's no virtue in working hard if you're not working smart as well.

(Note: I find a lined neck distracting and confusing too. Must be an upright bass thing.)

 

[Lo-E]

Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm not trying to be a jerk or be unhelpful when I say: Use the search function!

Seriously, all of your questions have been answered many times over on many, many threads. Do a search and you will find more answers than you could possibly count.

 

[tfer]

Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm not trying to be a jerk or be unhelpful when I say: Use the search function!

Seriously, all of your questions have been answered many times over on many, many threads. Do a search and you will find more answers than you could possibly count.

Sadly, the issue I've noticed is when someone bumps an old thread, there invariably are members who complain about 'zombie' or 'ancient' threads.

 

[pingvuiini]

I too find that the fears of excessive roundwound wear on fretless fingerboards to be overblown. I even went so far as to have my ebony Warmoth fretless neck epoxied to protect it from wear. And while I do like the look and feel of the epoxy coating, there are times when I miss the feel and sound of playing on raw ebony. For quite a while now I've been playing tapewounds and they are very quiet when moving your hand up and down the neck yet they are not 'dead' sounding like metal flatwounds. I also enjoy the 'full contact feel' of the tapewounds on the fretless fingerboard. Just recently I installed some D'Addario Pro Steel roundwounds on my fretless Status Graphite 5 string and I am really enjoying that great twangy piano-like sound, especially on the low B. So for me right now its really a toss up between the tapewounds and the roundwounds, but at least I have a few basses so I can have both.

 

[Immigrant]

BOING^

 

[bassstrangler]

In answering the original question...Flats leave marks on a lined rosewood fretboard. So don't worry about it either way as my new board had marks within 60 seconds of owning it.

 

[Eilif]

My start was in upright, and I played Fretless exclusively for a number of years so here's my take.

Rounds vs Flats. On rosewood, I'd say flats only. Rosewood is a comparatively soft wood and it will wear.

On Ebony (which is a harder wood), Ebanol (a synthetic) or an epoxied board rounds are just fine. Make no mistake however, they WILL wear at the fingerboard. I played an ebony board Carvin Fretless with rounds for 4 years almost exclusively and off and on for a few years after that. That's quite a bit of use and it shows on the fingerboard. You can really see the markings from the strings. It hasn't gotten to the point where it affects the playability and theres only a few spots where you can feel much difference under your bare fingers, but wear is happening. Just know that wear does happen and in 6-7 years of heavy use, even an ebony board will need to have the fingerboard dressed by a luthier. Not a huge deal, but it will happen.

Also, note that some strings are much more aggressive than others. Stainless steel rounds are going to bite at the fingerboard more than nickel steel. If a string has alot of bite on your finger (I'm looking at you Roto-sound) it's going to bite at your fingerboard.

As for unlined vs lined, I say go with what you're comfortable with. I go with unlined because it pleases me visually and the side dots are enough for me. Also, if I'm playing fretless on stage, I want folks to know it. However, if you find it intimidating, then there's nothing wrong with lines.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy the fretless experience.

My last bit of advice would be that when you are learning fretless, do as much of your practice as possible on the fretless, even if you gig on other instruments. I'm getting back into fretless now and my fretless gets 80% of my practice time.

 

[AltGrendel]

Some more advice that I've stated elsewhere.

There's nothing wrong with learning a bass line on your fretted bass and moving it over to the fretless.

 

[Plutonium244]

I just bought a used fretless that has a lined maple board and was strung with rounds. Maple is pretty hard, yet there was significant wear under the strings in spots, including discoloration due to hand oils getting into the rubbed-bare spots. I am having the fretboard sanded and an epoxy coat applied. So, rounds CAN do some damage, but if you like the sound, use a softer metal composition and not straight stainless steel. Also, since this is my first fretless (after 30 years of playing), I don't mind the lined board, it seems to help. I also have an upright which is of course unlined, but with the long scale of an upright you have a little more "wiggle" room in terms of finger placement for intonation. Once I get comfortable on the fretless electric bass, I might consider an unlined.

There are also many fretless basses that have more subtle fretboard lines, and pretty much look unlined from a distance, if you want the security of lines but with a more unlined look.

 

[fishdreams]

I mostly play fretless, and I picked up some practice tricks from cello players. Some strategies I use:
* I work on a strict position system with consistent shifting, like I would do on a double bass. (based either on 1,2,3,4 or 1,2,4 - whatever works for the fingering hand). It is the way how you will be able to find any note without looking.
* I play pitches slowly with a a cell phone tuner on my music stand (the cleartune one costs a few bucks, but is very good). I play for example the Prelude of Bach's 1st Cello suite that way (slowly, note by note) or, for example an arpeggiated figure that I then move up the neck (shify positions) in semitone steps.
* I pay special attention to the curving of the fingers on the left hand (being right handed) - the tip of the finger yields the clearest pitch, and the slightest change impacts pitch and tone consistency.