Maple is a fairly hard wood, but the combination of it often being finished (poly scratches reasonably easily) and the ease with which is stains (being a light colored wood) means that it really needs to be either played with flats or given a very strong finishe (epoxy, etc_.
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Newbie fretless advice needed
- Thread starter lil nelson
- Start date
Maple is a fairly hard wood, but the combination of it often being finished (poly scratches reasonably easily) and the ease with which is stains (being a light colored wood) means that it really needs to be either played with flats or given a very strong finishe (epoxy, etc_.
My free advice regarding playing a fretless bass is worth exactly what you pay for it.
1. Approach the fretboard as if you were playing directly on top of the fret (this advice comes from Jaco and Jerry Jemmott, not me!). If you have dot markers on the side, center your finger in the middle of the dot.
2. Record yourself playing, especially a gig you play with your fretless bass; this will give you valuable insight into how well in-tune you are (the most important thing) and coming in at a far, far second place - your tone and "mwah." I recently recorded a two-hour gig I did with my jazz band where I played my fretless bass on 95 percent of the songs. A close listen to the recording revealed that the only time I was noticeably out-of-tune was when I was playing at what would be the 8th fret and higher. This led me to sit down with my Korg tuner and play some scales and figure out where the notes are (which I recorded with my Zoom H2).
1. Approach the fretboard as if you were playing directly on top of the fret (this advice comes from Jaco and Jerry Jemmott, not me!). If you have dot markers on the side, center your finger in the middle of the dot.
2. Record yourself playing, especially a gig you play with your fretless bass; this will give you valuable insight into how well in-tune you are (the most important thing) and coming in at a far, far second place - your tone and "mwah." I recently recorded a two-hour gig I did with my jazz band where I played my fretless bass on 95 percent of the songs. A close listen to the recording revealed that the only time I was noticeably out-of-tune was when I was playing at what would be the 8th fret and higher. This led me to sit down with my Korg tuner and play some scales and figure out where the notes are (which I recorded with my Zoom H2).
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Here, work on this: Heart of the Sunrise
Guaranteed to improve your upper registry intonation.
FYI: It's my current fretless project for that very reason.
Re lines - Another variation I have been seeing (although only on very high end $$$$$ basses) are small dots on the fingerboard to assist with intonation. Also lately there are side lines that go over onto the fingerboard for a short length. This F Bass has both features:
Pedulla:
(my) STR :
Well, for starters, if the poster is new here, he or she may not know this been covered a lot and may not be all that familiar with the search features.
I started my post with "Please don't take this the wrong way" and, apparently, that's exactly what three people did.
The OP does not bother me. If it had, I would not have responded.
- Jun 6, 2012
- 4,837
- 6,859
- Disclosures
- I don't wait 30 minutes after eating, to go swimming.
Fretless players that use roundwounds.
Jaco
Mark Egan
Gary Willis
Steve Bailey
Michael Manring
Alain Caron
Jimmy Johnson
Jaco
Mark Egan
Gary Willis
Steve Bailey
Michael Manring
Alain Caron
Jimmy Johnson
I don't know where this idea of 'you have to have ebony rosewood is too soft' comes from. Rosewood is really really hard.
This is interesting, why do you think that is the case?
Glad somebody else thinks so too. I definitely think rosewood makes it more difficult to intonate a note correctly.
And here I was always thinking that it must just be a 'me' thing all these years.
This is interesting, why do you think that is the case?
I didn't check his credentials. What I did was suggest he use a valuable resource. I apologize if this offended your, or anyone else's sensibilities.
EDIT: and no, I'm not being sarcastic. I seriously did not mean to offend anyone and I certainly did not mean to offend the OP.
Probably because rosewood, while very, very hard, is still softer and less dense than ebony. The resulting tone is warmer than that of ebony. It makes pitch just a little harder to discern in a band situation.
Don't really know. I just noticed that I personally find it easier to get correct intonation on an ebony or synthetic fingerboard. Which is funny. Because I'm down to one fretless bass right now. It's a Godin Acoustibass L.R. Baggs model. And it has a rosewood fingerboard. Possibly the rosewood grabs the string over a broader area when you stop it, as opposed to other woods, so it's more difficult to know the exact point where the string is making greatest contact? But I really don't know. And it may well just be me.
Anybody else have any ideas as to why it may be (or possibly just seem) so?
It could also just be something about the radius of the fingerboards, neck relief, etc. on the those necks where I've noticed I seem to have more difficulty getting correct intonation. And possibly all those "problem" necks just so happened to have rosewood fingerboards. In which case it had nothing to do with their rosewood fingerboards at all.
But again, I don't know.
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I don't think it's just you. I've always found the same to be true. Practicing at home or in a sparse arrangement, it's never really been an issue, but I notice it in a full band setting.
For me, at least, It's just that I can hear myself better when I have the accentuated mids of ebony or phenolic boards, which I don't really get with rosewood. I've always just assumed it was the higher density of ebony and phenolic, but I don't really have anything to back that up.
You may have hit it! Never really thought of it that way. But you're right. More prominent mids definitely help in an ensemble situation when you're playing fretless. (At least when you hit my age.) I do tend to boost my low mids higher than I usually do when I'm playing fretless with others.
So yeah...I think he's got it!
Jaco coated his board, and Mark Egan uses Pedullas, which have a (lovely sounding) polyester finish on their boards. Can't speak for the rest of them.
Michael Manring's Zon Hyperbass is also coated with epoxy.
He needs it with all the tapping he does.
Coating the fingerboard gives the sound a different characteristic.
More of a "Meow"than "Mwah"
My fretless isn't coated.
Like many others,I like the sound of strings on bare rosewood.
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This brings up an interesting point. Brightness often means that flaws in intonation can be a little more evident. My Conklin with a Dymondwood fingerboard and CB with coated maple fingerboard are very unforgiving. My Rob Allens with tape wound strings on uncoated fingerboards are much more forgiving in the sense that I have much more wiggle room before anyone hears that I'm off.
I've used both nickel half rounds (D'Addario NHR72) and flats (GHS Brite Flats) on my (unlined) fretless Precision. Both were very agreeable. I prefer the piano-like sound of the half rounds, but the Brite Flats were very nice when I played a bass guitar with a Big Band. I am not worried about wear on my rosewood fingerboard. If it needs to be dressed, I'll get it dressed, but this kind of maintenance is done on a long timescale so it's no big deal either way. Go with what you like.
My "secret weapon" when learning to play fretless was A) having the same kind of bass in both fretted and fretless versions, and especially B) practicing fretless at twilight, with no lights on. This was REALLY helpful, as I might start off really focusing on the fingerboard, but as the room became dark I had to rely solely on feel and hearing. This was very very helpful!
As to lines or not, I give it a shrug. My Precision is unlined, but I'd be happy to try a bass with lines for tunes with combinations of harmonics + fretted notes a la Jeff Schmidt. I surely don't think it's a beginner vs pro issue like is often implied. Case in point: Tony Levin plays a lined fretless. 'nuff said.
My "secret weapon" when learning to play fretless was A) having the same kind of bass in both fretted and fretless versions, and especially B) practicing fretless at twilight, with no lights on. This was REALLY helpful, as I might start off really focusing on the fingerboard, but as the room became dark I had to rely solely on feel and hearing. This was very very helpful!
As to lines or not, I give it a shrug. My Precision is unlined, but I'd be happy to try a bass with lines for tunes with combinations of harmonics + fretted notes a la Jeff Schmidt. I surely don't think it's a beginner vs pro issue like is often implied. Case in point: Tony Levin plays a lined fretless. 'nuff said.
Ground wounds are my "standard" fretless string. They are as bright as you can go without chewing the fingerboard. Those would be D'addario (they used to call them half-rounds) and GHS Brite flats. Excellent fretless sound and no chews. Those saying rounds don't chew your board are spinning myth. When I got my new Alembic Fretless 6 it supposedly had "pressure wounds" on it. They actually were rounds and very quickly they started chewing grooves in the Ebony neck. I freaked out and sanded it smooth and switched to grounds. No chews since. Generally speaking only ground wounds, flats and nylon wrapped do not chew necks at all. I have only one fretless with flats (GHS) and that is my SX 6 string fretless Jazz (avatar) and only my Carvin AC50 semi-hollow uses nylon wrapped. On those basses those strings work VERY well. Midway between rounds and grounds are true pressure wounds (GHS or Ken Smith). These are a bit brighter than grounds but not as bright as rounds. I've used them in the past but to me they had a kind of funny tone so I quit. They chew just a small amount, way less than rounds.
But as has been pointed out, just because rounds will chew your fingerboard is no reason not to use them if you dig the tone. The worst case is you just need to get the fingerboard sanded every couple of years as "the cost of doing business". Generally speaking I FAR prefer the tone, feel, and long wearing ability of Ebony boards. Rosewood wears a bit faster, but has a slightly more mellow tone which at times I really like, and maple wears even faster, but I'm not a huge fan of maple fretless tone.
Yes, I too am a big fan of the fretted-fretless pair. I have several. My main 5er axes are a pair of USA G&L L2500 in fretted and fretless. Too cool for words.
As for lines, I prefer unlined just for looks, but my G&L and Carvin AC50 are lined. No big deal. One reason some basses now only have short lines near the edge is because when you stand with a strap you can't see anything but the edges of the lines anyway. So unless you always play seated there is no huge deal for the player with regard to lined or unlined. As I said it's mostly about what people see looking at you. Some people equate lined with beginner because many beginners buy a lined neck to act as a kind of cheat sheet to help get them started. I know I did. And truly it was a help to get yourself started on fretless. But you quickly outgrow the need for that help and then lined or unlined becomes irrelevant. Which is why I wish I'd bought unlined as a beginner since I quickly outgrew the need and then had to live with the lined look. My G&L is also lined but only because it was used and the previous owner ordered it that way. Still no big deal. Another reason lined is considered "beginner" is that some economy basses just leave the frets off their fretted basses and fill the slots with something so that many entry level fretless basses tend to be lined.
