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Double Bass Newbie Seeking to Amplify
- Thread starter Count Bassie
- Start date
What I didn't like is that after several years the two little discs inside the Realist sink into the soft spruce top of the bass and the thing loses response. On the Full Circle the piezo elements bear on metal so I expect not to encounter this failure mode.
For those disliking the Realist because of the discs sinking into the top, get a Shadow SH-965 NFX.
The battery adapter (for the built-in piezo buffer) may rattle, but some harder foam (rubber foam) put into the case (4 Phillips screws to open) prevent that. There is also a better preamp available (aimed at Rockabilly because of a third fingerboard pickup input).
You don’t need to use both pickup elements, works with one only as well. Then you have a spare one.
They are made from piezo foil with more higher frequency content than the (copper) Realist and without any piezo quack from ceramic piezos.
The only things I don’t like too much is that the output volume is a bit low, the tone control could have been omitted and that the sound is a bit distant.
Good for amplified acoustic music (specially good for tango with alternating pizz and arco or folk music) but less if you want to punch through or drive a band.
But I also have heard that newer versions of the copper Realist don’t have these disks any longer.
The battery adapter (for the built-in piezo buffer) may rattle, but some harder foam (rubber foam) put into the case (4 Phillips screws to open) prevent that. There is also a better preamp available (aimed at Rockabilly because of a third fingerboard pickup input).
You don’t need to use both pickup elements, works with one only as well. Then you have a spare one.
They are made from piezo foil with more higher frequency content than the (copper) Realist and without any piezo quack from ceramic piezos.
The only things I don’t like too much is that the output volume is a bit low, the tone control could have been omitted and that the sound is a bit distant.
Good for amplified acoustic music (specially good for tango with alternating pizz and arco or folk music) but less if you want to punch through or drive a band.
But I also have heard that newer versions of the copper Realist don’t have these disks any longer.
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Earl
Supporting Member
He might not have thought about that and then it happened. Many were very happy with the Realist when it got available.
He also didn’t know that a lot of them only worked for about five years. Same with the Full Circle (but not for everyone).
When you construct things you don’t have the time to test them for five or ten years.
BTW, putting a thin non-deformable metal sheet (like from carbon steel) between top and pickup would have prevented this. But you need to know that this would happen.
AFAIK the current Realists no longer have these discs in them.
Earl
Supporting Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the disks were in the earlier Realists but the later ones it was just foil.
Copper, and I was one of the first users. In fairness David may have addressed the issue in later models. At that point of my life I was doing a lot of work that required Arco, and it was the best pickup I've ever used for arco. I used it for well over a decade and switched to a FC because I was playing in a loud band and wanted a little more high end cut. I've still got that old Realist on my ply and it works great. I don't know whether or not it's making dents in that tough plywood. In my experience the FC is the pickup that dies after a few years. I'm using a Lifeline now. For me, on my bass, the KNA was the ugliest pickup I ever tried. Others love it. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
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If all you're looking for is louder + adequate sound, then ...
I play in UK pubs, open mics and the occasional gig. The PA is whatever the pub has, acoustics are always interesting (this is rural Suffolk, so heavy oak ceiling beams and pillars give unusual sound reflections, as does the pool table in front of the players, and so on).
I searched back on Talkbass and that persuaded me to try a Lavalier condenser mic - this one (Amazon.co.uk) but they're all around US$ 20 and I suspect they're all the same mic.
You drop the mic end through the top round of the G side F hole, wrap a piece of foam around the wire and use it to plug that end of the F hole, pull the wire back until the mic touches the foam, then plug into the PA and play.
This sounds pretty reasonable, a bit less natural than the SM57 I was using, perhaps, but much more feedback resistant.
The main downside is 10 metres of skinny cable between bass and amp, but I plan to fix that by shortening the wire. Its 3.5mm jack will plug into the AA battery preamp, fixed to the tailpiece, and I'll run a standard cable from there to the PA.
I don't know if a dynamic Lavalier would work just as well - those are even cheaper.
A big advantage for me is not needing a preamp. I'm usually toting a guitar and uke as well, so I want as little else as possible to carry!
I play in UK pubs, open mics and the occasional gig. The PA is whatever the pub has, acoustics are always interesting (this is rural Suffolk, so heavy oak ceiling beams and pillars give unusual sound reflections, as does the pool table in front of the players, and so on).
I searched back on Talkbass and that persuaded me to try a Lavalier condenser mic - this one (Amazon.co.uk) but they're all around US$ 20 and I suspect they're all the same mic.
You drop the mic end through the top round of the G side F hole, wrap a piece of foam around the wire and use it to plug that end of the F hole, pull the wire back until the mic touches the foam, then plug into the PA and play.
This sounds pretty reasonable, a bit less natural than the SM57 I was using, perhaps, but much more feedback resistant.
The main downside is 10 metres of skinny cable between bass and amp, but I plan to fix that by shortening the wire. Its 3.5mm jack will plug into the AA battery preamp, fixed to the tailpiece, and I'll run a standard cable from there to the PA.
I don't know if a dynamic Lavalier would work just as well - those are even cheaper.
A big advantage for me is not needing a preamp. I'm usually toting a guitar and uke as well, so I want as little else as possible to carry!
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I like the sound of the Full Circle for live and higher volume gigs a lot. Just don't have adjusters, so that's out.
Sorry that thing dented the top on your bass.
Just a bit of a follow up on my own personal experience; the pickup doesn't live on my bass full-time (I usually play in orchestras and I think it looks a little tacky to have an inactive pickup just sitting there), but I threw the Realist on last night for a couple trio gigs this weekend and, gotta say, thing is holding up pretty well. I've had the same one since 2008 and, though it's not like I've used it every single night, the thing is still going strong 17 years later. Money well spent and, hey, David and Ned Steinberger are the kind of people I like working on instrument tech.
I owned both versions of the Realist. v1 had two piezo disks inside a copper foil “enclosure” the 1/4” jack on that one was just covered in black shrink wrap. When the revised it the discs weren’t visible under the copper foil and the black plastic encased jack had “Realist” embossed in gold on the front.
The Realist “underfoot” is great for arco and pizz at moderate to medium high volumes. Something happens to the timbre at higher volumes gets progressively more boomy and nasal on my basses. It requires some very creative EQ to overcome that. The Realist Lifeline is IME easier to work with and easier to mount and remove. Just my take. A RedEye Preamp is great for EQ ing either of the Realists.
The Realist “underfoot” is great for arco and pizz at moderate to medium high volumes. Something happens to the timbre at higher volumes gets progressively more boomy and nasal on my basses. It requires some very creative EQ to overcome that. The Realist Lifeline is IME easier to work with and easier to mount and remove. Just my take. A RedEye Preamp is great for EQ ing either of the Realists.
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Lavalier mics are intended to be used clipped to a shirt around the breast. They have a frequency level correction so that it sounds like in (some distance from the) front of the mouth, so they are not neutral when used in a different way.
A mic pointing into the body has a strong emphasis on the lowest air resonance mode, so very boomy in a certain low frequency range.
I know bassists have done it, but probably with a mic that doesn’t transduce low frequencies well. Anyway, some frequency range will be more present than others.
And air mics in general are very sensitive to feedback, some a bit less than others.
Even if in your playing position you won’t get feedback, turning your bass a bit sideways might easily get you into massive feedback.
I'd expected the boominess, but it's not bad at all. I suspect the condenser part helps with that.
Feedback has been no problem so far, but I'm playing in acoustic groups in pubs so not silly loud.
As I hope I conveyed, this worked for my uses and I put it forward because it's cheap to try and easy to setup. If the OP has different needs then it's probably not right for him.
We on stage with our amps are not in a normal hearing situation.
The human audio perception has frequency dependent dynamic ranges and the low end has the smallest range. That means if it gets louder we might get close to the limits.
This is similar to the loudness switch at your HiFi, for a softer volume the loudness switch gets pressed to get a fuller and brighter sound, but when you raise the volume bass and high are too dominating, so the loudness switch gets disengaged.
Since we often dial in the sound with a lower volume than the max volume during a show, bass (and highs if they are present at all) needs to be reduced.
I once speculated if we need the EQ coupled to the volume, but absolute volume depends on SPL of the cab and gained input strength.
The human audio perception has frequency dependent dynamic ranges and the low end has the smallest range. That means if it gets louder we might get close to the limits.
This is similar to the loudness switch at your HiFi, for a softer volume the loudness switch gets pressed to get a fuller and brighter sound, but when you raise the volume bass and high are too dominating, so the loudness switch gets disengaged.
Since we often dial in the sound with a lower volume than the max volume during a show, bass (and highs if they are present at all) needs to be reduced.
I once speculated if we need the EQ coupled to the volume, but absolute volume depends on SPL of the cab and gained input strength.
I knew this would turn into a round table/seminar and lol. Great, good stuff to pick through and follow up on.
@Prof Chris, your using a lavaliere mic in low volume situations? I've been thinking a Vic's p'up will do, I'm new to the scene and to get amplified successfully is the first objective here...
@Prof Chris, your using a lavaliere mic in low volume situations? I've been thinking a Vic's p'up will do, I'm new to the scene and to get amplified successfully is the first objective here...
