Newer bassist, how much power do I need?

[pbass2]

Maybe, if yours are loaded with Kappalite 3012s, or similar high-end drivers. A pair of decent 2x12" cabs is still going to move much more air. IME, a single 12" doesn't cut it for playing with a loud drummer, and it looks like OP is in the same boat. I do have a small 10" cab for the speaking volume gigs, though.

True, true--a rig with 4x12"s is moving some serious air. I'm just finding 2 1x12 cabs stacked to be a real sweet spot of portability, flexibility, and power.

 

[hondo4life]

Doesn't anyone else want to hear me!? Maybe not.

 

[Volunteerk9]

There is being 'heard' and then there is being 'HEARD'. Kind of like the whole 'cutting through the mix' conversation that comes up every few days. I cant imagine 150 watts with a couple of 10" speakers sitting on the floor would be very effective in cutting through much. Others mileage and experience may vary.

 

[socialleper]

If only there was a way to get that sound in a smaller package. I have to second the guys who said it's nice to play through someone else's/backline 8x10", but lugging around your own sucks .



Guitarists can be turned down, but there's no volume knob on the drummer. Mutes and drum screen only do so much. Besides, low stage volume is always desirable as long as you have decent PA support.

The guitarists can, but that doesn't mean they will.

 

[popcat]

This is mine from another thread: Is it loud enough?

...I was in GC the other evening and heard the Acoustic BN6210 600W 2x10 Neodymium Bass Combo Amp (~ $650), and here's my $0.25 worth:

A guy I didn't know was first playing an Ampeg BA-110 V2 (smaller version of the BA-210, they didn't have a 210) and it sounded okay but didn't draw my attention much. After I walked away and then came back a little later, he was playing the same axe through an Acoustic BN6210. I was looking at some nearby equipment when it suddenly hit me that the amp was sounding pretty good. I mentioned it to the guy playing and he agreed. I said that I heard him earlier playing the 110 and asked if he had tried one of the Rumbles, and he said that the Ampeg & Fender sounded similar (his opinion), but this Acoustic was much better (again, we were in agreement). If I had $700+ (sales tax) to drop on a combo, I would have walked out the door with one and not looked back. The only written description I can offer is that the sound is clearer and more defined, better room fill. I'm not sure why, but perhaps it's the front porting on the Acoustic.

Is it loud enough?

 

[Hounddog409]

So I'm a newer bassist who is finally at a level where musicians actually want to be in a band with me, and my cheapo Crate BT15 that I practice through just doesn't cut it when the kits in the house. I play a passive Fender Precision, although I will sometimes be playing an active Iceman (mostly in practice). The venues we'll be playing are mostly nightclubs and are between 200-600 in capacity. This band will be along the vein of Sleep's Holy Mountain (so quite bass heavy, Sabbath-inspired and riffy). The issue is that I have no idea how many watts/ohms I need to fill the room up with heavy-bass-goodness. I would like a cab and head arrangement in case I want to one day expand my sound, and I would like a bit of headroom (if I'm using that term correctly) in case we get lucky enough to find ourselves in any bigger venues. Do I need an 8x10 cab and a 1000w head? or would a simple 1x15 and a much more modest power rating do the trick?
Thanks a bunch,
Reggie.

this is plenty for most venues....
800 watts to 2 1x15's

and the cost doesnt break the bank. amp - 699 new. 600 used but you have to be quick. i picked up the cabs used for less than the Mesa cost me new.

 

[bdplaid]

A lot of these answers are complicated solutions, so allow me to simplify: Always buy as much as you can afford.

Don't go cheap, or you will never be happy and will spend more money and waste time in the long run trying to make the crap you bought sound like the amp you want. And you'll end up buying the amp you wanted, anyway.

Tube vs SS, which cab... yadda... You have to go out and try and see what you like. They're all different. But a couple of things:

Tube is usually heavy, unless it's hybrid, and there are fragility and maintenance issues concerning the tubes. I use SS specifically because it sound clear, articulate, and no maintenance BS.

Who plays what you like? The bassist in the band you are modeling your band after - what does he play?

I'm not an engineer but I like the engineer's approach: use the smallest and lightest thing that gets the job done.

I have a few rigs, and the new one kills: Mesa Subway D800 with matching 115. Really hard to beat that for size, thump and volume. If I was doing hard rock or metal, I could add TWO more cabs (3 total) to this rig, because it goes down to 2 ohms. 800 watts pushing three 15s that themselves are slamming. Buy everyone in the band earplugs.

On the lower end, The Fender Rumble V3 stuff is really nice. SS but sounds tubey and deep, with either one or two 410s IMO would be killer for rock. I have a 500 head running through two 112s and dig the hell out of it. really loud, too. Louder than 500 watts would lead you to believe.

good luck.

 

[Texasbassplayer]

So I'm a newer bassist who is finally at a level where musicians actually want to be in a band with me, and my cheapo Crate BT15 that I practice through just doesn't cut it when the kits in the house. I play a passive Fender Precision, although I will sometimes be playing an active Iceman (mostly in practice). The venues we'll be playing are mostly nightclubs and are between 200-600 in capacity. This band will be along the vein of Sleep's Holy Mountain (so quite bass heavy, Sabbath-inspired and riffy). The issue is that I have no idea how many watts/ohms I need to fill the room up with heavy-bass-goodness. I would like a cab and head arrangement in case I want to one day expand my sound, and I would like a bit of headroom (if I'm using that term correctly) in case we get lucky enough to find ourselves in any bigger venues. Do I need an 8x10 cab and a 1000w head? or would a simple 1x15 and a much more modest power rating do the trick?
Thanks a bunch,
Reggie.

 

[MDBass]

So I'm a newer bassist who is finally at a level where musicians actually want to be in a band with me, and my cheapo Crate BT15 that I practice through just doesn't cut it when the kits in the house. I play a passive Fender Precision, although I will sometimes be playing an active Iceman (mostly in practice). The venues we'll be playing are mostly nightclubs and are between 200-600 in capacity. This band will be along the vein of Sleep's Holy Mountain (so quite bass heavy, Sabbath-inspired and riffy). The issue is that I have no idea how many watts/ohms I need to fill the room up with heavy-bass-goodness. I would like a cab and head arrangement in case I want to one day expand my sound, and I would like a bit of headroom (if I'm using that term correctly) in case we get lucky enough to find ourselves in any bigger venues. Do I need an 8x10 cab and a 1000w head? or would a simple 1x15 and a much more modest power rating do the trick?
Thanks a bunch,
Reggie.

It all depends on what you're using the amp for.

With good FOH support (meaning the amp is essentially just your stage monitor and the audience is hearing your DI or mic'ed signal through the PA) a 1x15 with a few hundred watts should be fine for a club sized venue.

The carry the entire room, especially with that kind of band, you need much more displacement as well as more power.

 

[The Regulator]

IMO minimum requirements to cover most gigs are 300-500 watts into an 8 ohm 212 or 410. If you need more volume, get a second identical cab for the bigger venues.

 

[lomo]

I repeat the general mantra-about a 500 watt head and a pair of 8 Ohm cabs (210s stacked vertically, or 2 15s). Stay away from combos due to lack of flexibility. Also, IME Orange amps excel at 1 main sound.......they are not the most flexible heads out there, nor do they offer the most bang per buck.....just my .02.

 

[MDBass]

Do you find that SS gets a less defined tone than tube? Or is the difference just volume?

It's a bit more complex than just volume.

Tube power amp distortion produces a very pleasing sounding clipping, while SS power amp distortion generally sounds awful; a tube amps rating is for clean power, but it will produce significantly higher wattage and output when driven hard.

If anything, SS amps are more defined sounding due to that lack of harmonic power tube saturation, which is why some people find tubes "warm" and solid state "sterile".

 

[Texasbassplayer]

A gree with these gentleman on the subject.The mb 500 and800 by gk with 4-10's and one 15 cabs have been wonderful,or the rb1001gk rigged with 4-10 and one 15 ampeg classic seris cabs.( like butta).But again, sir it depends on your venue, the place AND acoustics.Have and amp and speaker clousers you can mix and match. but always have the power, cuz if you need to turn it down or turn it up its there.Now playing a live performance,(when you get there and if you have a passion for bass like myself or these gentleman).Then on live stage your bass will be the monitor for you hear and your sound will be the sound on STAGE but the di will be in the FOH.( front of the house)hopeful this has helped you.I've played professonial for 35years.Oh I got some more info for ya. let me know.)

 

[kosmicwizard]

So I'm a newer bassist who is finally at a level where musicians actually want to be in a band with me, and my cheapo Crate BT15 that I practice through just doesn't cut it when the kits in the house. I play a passive Fender Precision, although I will sometimes be playing an active Iceman (mostly in practice). The venues we'll be playing are mostly nightclubs and are between 200-600 in capacity. This band will be along the vein of Sleep's Holy Mountain (so quite bass heavy, Sabbath-inspired and riffy). The issue is that I have no idea how many watts/ohms I need to fill the room up with heavy-bass-goodness. I would like a cab and head arrangement in case I want to one day expand my sound, and I would like a bit of headroom (if I'm using that term correctly) in case we get lucky enough to find ourselves in any bigger venues. Do I need an 8x10 cab and a 1000w head? or would a simple 1x15 and a much more modest power rating do the trick?
Thanks a bunch,
Reggie.

You need at least 180 all-tube watts, 200 or 300 is better (800, 1000 or 1400 ss/hibrid watts) and 4x15. Cheers.

 

[Texasbassplayer]

The PA and monitor situation makes all the difference in the world. Some people don't use amps at all, others bring 1000W/8x10 to a 50 seat coffee house.

My experience has been that 200 to 300W into a 1x15 or 2x10 will be on a par, volume wise, with an average strength drummer and a guitar player using a 25 to 30W 1x12 tube amp.
That's in terms of hearing yourself and each other on stage.

 

[Texasbassplayer]

Your spot on my friend,but if I was in a coffeehouse I would bring combo amp say, an ampeg ba 15 and use the acoustic dampers( a little stand and insulater to bring off the floor about 12") that way you wont have the roundnest of the bass sound traveling across the floor.cleaner sound.

 

[GeezerGuy]

Since you mentioned Sleep, I recommend just getting an Ampeg SVT and 8x10 and being done with it.

Ah, thats what I dream about at night. Unfortunately the money gods and the music gods are disagreeing over that one

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Thanks! And I am in Canada, wouldn't mind keeping the transaction between 1000-1500. The Orange TB 500 or TB 1000 looks really nice, and in my price/watt range, do you know anything about those heads?

As a TB500 owner, I can't recommend this head highly enough, assuming it's the sound you're going for.
This head is a bit wooly (and you have to crank the mids knob to get"flat" EQ response), but the 500 watts are really loud, louder than other 500 watt heads I've played. How? Dunno. Just are.
I play with the gain and master volume knob both at 9 o'clock, and it's plenty. Small bars with no PA are no problem.
Now you just gotta pick your cab. Look for something efficient rather than large. My Bag End 1x15 is super efficient, so I don't have too many problems being heard.
However, for the style you're talking about, you need to move more air than I do, so aim for a 2x10 or 2x12. OR if you've got the scratch, look to the fEarful 1x15. Super efficient and effective at filling a room. Get a fEarful 15sub when the time comes to add another cab. Job done.

If you have any questions about the head, just PM me.

 

[Texasbassplayer]

I forgot to mention, that iz4005 said, that the pa and monitor will have a tool for you to use.Everything is differernt.

 

[GeezerGuy]

What is your guitarist using? That will give me an idea of the scope and seriousness of the situation.

I would not count on sound man or PA system to get that awesome in the room sound. 600-1000w solid through 8x10 or equivalent would be my go-to (I use 4x10 x2 as a modular). I like to have enough to drown out the guitarist if I have to. Something like one fridge per guitarist with 100-120w tube driven 4x12. You can make do with less but that is only if the guitarist is reasonable which I would not count on either.

There is something to be said about having sufficient presence in rehearsal. You dont want to be drowned out at every single practice (which is the risk of a 1x15 rig vs louder tube guitarists+ hard hitting drummer). Sometimes the only way to tame a guitarist is with br00t force and it is also one of the most enjoyable ways.

As far as I know, he uses some kind of tweed wrapped 2x12 Fender tube driven amp, didn't take note of the model when I saw it but those all tend to be in the same ballpark from what I know