Newer bassist, how much power do I need?

[alaskaleftybass]

I wish someone would have pounded the following into my head when I started many years ago:
You need to be self-sufficient for both large rooms and outdoor shows. You don't have to break the bank to do it.
Please please don't buy less than 500 watts. Buy 2 cabinets for ease of transport. There are so many light cabinets out there. Or buy one Gallien Krueger 410 Neo cabinet.
For less than $1,500 you can buy a Gallien Krueger MB800 and a GK 212 or 410 Neo cabinet. As money permits, you can add a second matching cabinet later. Gallien Krueger is going to give you a very loud solution and it's very affordable stuff, for such high quality.
There is NOTHING worse than the band being at fever pitch, the drummer and the guitarist cranked, and feeling ultimate frustration because your wimpy system is barely being heard and sounds thin no matter how hard you play.
You are young. My best gift to you would be-- always overbuy on your gear and power. Be the guy like John Entwistle who NEVER needed power. Even if it starts with a 500 watt head and a 410 0r 212 cab.

EDIT: I just remembered, Hartke makes some excellent sounding powerful stuff for a fair price. The HyDrive series cabs are excellent loud lightweight cabs and the heads are loud and affordable!

Best of luck to you. Please let us know what you finally get!

 

[Wasnex]

Do you find that SS gets a less defined tone than tube? Or is the difference just volume?

I love solid state, hybrid, and tube amps. I find each amp model tends to have it's own unique sound and feel. Despite this, IMHO speakers typically make more of a difference to your sound than the amp. Additionally some speaker amp pairings sound great while others blow.

The following includes some generalities that may not hold true from amp to amp:

Solid state amps tend to be a bit tighter on the bottom. The sound of most solid state amps stays fairly consistent regardless of volume level. Many solid state amps do not overload gracefully. They may go quickly into nasty unusable distortion or protection mode (mute). The equalization on must solid state amps is fairly intuitive and can range from very basic to very complicated. Watts are cheap so you can use smaller and fewer speakers that go deep but are relatively inefficient.

Tube amps tend to be a bit looser on the bottom. As you increase volume they tend to compress and generate more harmonic content. Eventually most will transition gracefully into musical overdrive. Many tube amps have a very simple EQ that is not very intuitive because the bass, midrange, and treble controls interact. Some people prefer this type of EQ as you generally find the ideal setting and then leave it alone. Others find these simple, interactive EQs to be limited and frustrating. No worries, there are plenty of tube amps with very functional and even powerful EQs. The tube purist may be concerned because a more comprehensive EQ section typically puts solid state components in the signal path. A powerful tube rig will typically have between 250 to 450 watts before it starts audibly overdriving. Compression will occur well below maximum clean levels. A tube amp capable of putting out over 400 watts clean is probably going to cost quite a bit. Additionally, if you need to be really loud you will need an efficient speaker system. This usually means multiple large enclosures. Sealed cabinets are often desirable to help tighten up the sound of a tube head. Sealed cabs typically roll off quickly below 100 hz rather than going deep. Sealed cabs sound bassy but the character is a bit different sound than a ported cabinet that plays deeper.

It can be very challenging to find an amp/speaker combination that gives you the sound, feel, and volume you desire. If you have eclectic musical taste, another thing to consider is versatility. Some of my favorite amps are not very versatile.

If I were to return to the gig seen I would probably want a rig that is flexible, able to achieve my tonal and volume goals, and super light. With the right speakers 350 watts will get you plenty load, but I tend to like amps with a lot of head room. There are many 500 and 800 watt class D heads available that can be had for a very reasonable price. You can find amps with solid state or tube preamps and loads of power in package that weighs around 5 or 6 pounds and fits in your gig bag. If lightweight sounds good I suggest looking at GK MB (microbass) or MB Fusion models, Genz Benz Streamliner or ShuttleMax models (Genz Benz is out of production but buy with confidence on the used market), Genzler Magellan 800, Mesa D-800, Tecamp Puma, Aguilar ToneHammer, etc. If you want to go really high end with a great sounding tube preamp and lush solid state power amp, you could look into a Jule Monique 700

Good luck!

 

[basscooker]

Sabbathy stuff. One guitar, 212 combo. No keys? Just 3 pc + vocals?

PF500 or MB500 and a 212. That should do it.

 

[Wasnex]

Also, IME Orange amps excel at 1 main sound.......they are not the most flexible heads out there, nor do they offer the most bang per buck.....just my .02.

I have seen a lot of people bag on the limited range of the AD200 EQ. Funny but I find its EQ works better than several other tube amps I have played.

You are right that it is far from the most versatile, but for my purposes it is a damn good sounding amp that can cover a lot of range with an active bass. I think the key problem most people have is using too much gain and not enough master. Either that or they simply need a more powerful amp. Maximum clean volume and most transparent tone comes with the master wide open.

 

[Wasnex]

Also for everyone saying you NEED an 8x10 or NEED 1000+ watts. Seen Geddy Lee's rig recently? its a micro speaker in his ear Its all relative to what you're doing.

Great point and I am a big fan of in ear monitors. IMHO, To do it right and safely is not cheap and requires a competent and ideally consistent audio tech.

 

[Bassist13]

Great point and I am a big fan of in ear monitors. IMHO, To do it right and safely is not cheap and requires a competent and ideally consistent audio tech.

Agreed. I don't use them anymore since I've sort of slowed my live playing down but they are an example of size/wattage isn't everything.

 

[Wasnex]

Agreed. I don't use them anymore since I've sort of slowed my live playing down but they are an example of size/wattage isn't everything.

Agreed, and given the choice between a good consistent IEM mix and using amps, I would choose IEMs every time.

 

[R Baer]

So I'm a newer bassist who is finally at a level where musicians actually want to be in a band with me, and my cheapo Crate BT15 that I practice through just doesn't cut it when the kits in the house. I play a passive Fender Precision, although I will sometimes be playing an active Iceman (mostly in practice). The venues we'll be playing are mostly nightclubs and are between 200-600 in capacity. This band will be along the vein of Sleep's Holy Mountain (so quite bass heavy, Sabbath-inspired and riffy). The issue is that I have no idea how many watts/ohms I need to fill the room up with heavy-bass-goodness. I would like a cab and head arrangement in case I want to one day expand my sound, and I would like a bit of headroom (if I'm using that term correctly) in case we get lucky enough to find ourselves in any bigger venues. Do I need an 8x10 cab and a 1000w head? or would a simple 1x15 and a much more modest power rating do the trick?
Thanks a bunch,
Reggie.

I don't get out much anymore these days, but I did the entirety of my gigging days with my Ashdown ABM 500 and Eden WT550 being the most powerful amps I ever owned. Can't say that at any point in 30+ years did I feel like I needed more wattage, or headroom. If 500 watts into a 410 wouldn't do the trick, then I added another cabinet. Problem solved. The trend towards more and more power just has me shaking my head.

Try to imagine for a moment a 1200w SVT, or a 2400w class A/B? It would be absurd right? But we accept it just fine as a class D product. Certainly opens the door for the old "Are all watts created equal" debate now doesn't it?

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Exactly.
Any PA that can make a kick drum louder than your amp can make your bass as loud as the kick drum.

It's interesting to hear the differences in house PA availability in different areas.
Around here, every club or bar that has live music more than once a week has a PA that is more than big enough for the room, and usually is way too big for the room.
And that's playing in everything from tiny coffee shops to high end clubs, dive bars, theaters, 2000 capacity dedicated music venues, etc.
The only places that don't come with built-in PA support are restaurants and private parties.
None of them have had decent monitors. Usually three or four random wedges, one mix, and no low end. Half the time they don't work, or only want to run vocals through the monitors.

Almost none of the small to medium venues here have pa, and when they do its ancient and pathetic.

 

[Brokowski]

You're playing sludgy stoner doom? You'll need 7 15 inchers and 1000 watts

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Almost none of the small to medium venues here have pa, and when they do its ancient and pathetic.

This is what I use, and it's more than loud enough for most applications.

Used to use this Titan V12 ea cx310 sinfully loud

 

[interp]

Every bass player needs as much power as his wallet and speakers will withstand. Especially if your speakers are Fearless.

 

[Vince Klortho]

Everyone has an opinion so here's mine. I played hundreds of gigs with a Hartke HA3500. Those are great amps and I highly recommend them. I now use a Carvin BX700 and it is really good too. It has twice the power and weighs about eight pounds. I would pair one of those two amps with a Hartke 4x10 cabinet. The 410XL or 4.5XL are both great cabinets although they are a bit heavy. If you can handle the weight then get another if one is not loud enough. You can easily find them used at good prices.

 

[GMC]

A good rule of thumb is x10 what ever the guitarist is pushing. If he's using a 60w 2x12....you'll need a 600w 2x12. It's only a guide but it's usually right.

 

[Slevage]

300 watts minimum. Since watts are cheap these days----- look for USED 500 watts or more.

Cabinet--- 8 ohms no matter what configuration, but don't get a single 15. If you don't mind carrying it--- get a 4-10 cheap. That will give you plenty of volume and low end. If you want to go lighter--- 2-12's.

 

[Funkmabassup]

If I were you id go too your local musicstore and check out a: Fender rumble 500 combo.

All the power you will ever need nicely fit in one 16, 5 kilograms package, and it even sounds good!!

 

[buldog5151bass]

IMO, you need a head in the 300-500 watt range, and either 2 12s, 2 15s, or 4 10s. That will be enough to carry you when there is no PA support and give you headroom.

 

[Rogatien022]

Go used, plenty of awesome deals to be made. 500w is the "number" you should be looking for. You'll find a truck load of options for that type of amp, they are very trendy (class D) and every maker has one. Try as many as you can. For cab(s), I would choose the lightest possible that your money can afford.

 

[Robert Sperling]

I went with a Carvin B2000 (2050 watts @2ohms) and 2 Carvin Br410-4's, apprx $700 for the head new, and $300
each for the cabs, so $1300 for a deafening loud rig (no headroom issue there). I also have a vintage Fender Bassman modified with 2x15 Carvins at 4ohms, if I want more low end I run that with 1 BR410.

 

[hondo4life]

A good rule of thumb is x10 what ever the guitarist is pushing. If he's using a 60w 2x12....you'll need a 600w 2x12. It's only a guide but it's usually right.

That seems right. My lead guitar has a 100W all-tube 612, and he never turns it past 1.
I have about 300w solid state and I have to crank it. lolol