NFL 2019 Week #3

[GregC]

Steelers already went all in on this season. They also have a history of working with backup QBs.

True, but not to the extent this season will require. I was curious about the history and looked it up. Ben has started at least 11 games every year since he was drafted in 2004. And most of the backup games were played by veterans like Charlie Batch and Michael Vick.

That said, Landry Jones went 3-2 as a backup. Mason Rudolph, like Jones, racked up big numbers against, er, questionable Big 12 defenses. So maybe he'll have similar success.

 

[Funky Ghost]

True, but not to the extent this season will require. I was curious about the history and looked it up. Ben has started at least 11 games every year since he was drafted in 2004. And most of the backup games were played by veterans like Charlie Batch and Michael Vick.

That said, Landry Jones went 3-2 as a backup. Mason Rudolph, like Jones, racked up big numbers against, er, questionable Big 12 defenses. So maybe he'll have similar success.

Will they get to play the Dolphins every week?

 

[MJ5150]

True, but not to the extent this season will require. I was curious about the history and looked it up. Ben has started at least 11 games every year since he was drafted in 2004. And most of the backup games were played by veterans like Charlie Batch and Michael Vick.

That said, Landry Jones went 3-2 as a backup. Mason Rudolph, like Jones, racked up big numbers against, er, questionable Big 12 defenses. So maybe he'll have similar success.

Rudolph wasn't drafted because he put up big numbers. He's a big strong guy who the Steelers believe has those intangibles needed to lead an NFL offense.
Is he the next franchise QB? Who knows for sure, but the Steelers seem to think so by trading away the more experienced Dobbs and going into the season with Rudolph as the #2.
Are the Steelers going to win the Super Bowl now that they traded for Fitzpatrick? No. They never were going to with Ben this season anyway, and even if Brown was still around.
Now the terrible defense has been improved with a legit FS added to the roster, and Rudolph has the chance to prove if he's the guy or not in meaningful games.
For me, deciding if a QB is your future based on preseason games or mopping up in blowout wins or losses is risky. This way we'll know for sure.
If the Steelers saved the first round pick, and let's say it ends up being a top five. Ben comes back next season, then let's say the Steelers draft some hotshot QB in the top five. That's a big mess to deal with as the current franchise QB battles with the future possible franchise QB over playing time, etc.
It's been proven time and time again drafting a QB in the top 5-10 is no guarantee of on field success. Who was the last one that turned out any good? Rivers? He hasn't won anything.
I'm totally fine with the trade.
Rudolph gets legit playing time, Fitzpatrick gels with the defense. The Steelers are a step ahead on next season.
Maybe Rudolph sucks. Fine. Ben is back next season.

-Mike

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm rooting for Minshew and Falk. It's a total homer week for me!!

 

[Gaolee]

It's been proven time and time again drafting a QB in the top 5-10 is no guarantee of on field success. Who was the last one that turned out any good? Rivers? He hasn't won anything.

-Mike

Jury is still out on Baker Mayfield and the rest of that class. None have been around long enough or played for good enough teams to win much so far. 20 years from now, we will know. A third round choice has done OK in Seattle so far.

 

[MJ5150]

Jury is still out on Baker Mayfield and the rest of that class. None have been around long enough or played for good enough teams to win much so far. 20 years from now, we will know. A third round choice has done OK in Seattle so far.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting any of the guys drafted in the last year or two. Think beyond the last couple years. I am trying to think of a top 1-5, or even 10 QB who led his team to greatness, meaning a Super Bowl.
Aha, someone else did the thinking for me. Thank you drafthistory.com:
DraftHistory.com

-Mike

 

[Pilgrim]

Brady was sixth round. Bart Starr was 17th round. Minshew and Falk were both sixth round.

Yes, there have been a lot of 1st and 2nd round QB successes.

But I have considerable hopes for both of those Cougs.

 

[mrpackerguy]

One discussion I've tried to start on Twitter was the rush to start drafted QBs. I disagree with that philosophy. Favre had some time behind Chris Miller and in Green Bay, Don "Majik" Majkowski. Rodgers had a couple years behind Favre. I think some of these young kids just get wrecked being thrust in as the starter and oft times the titular savior of the franchise. But nowadays if you get drafted in the first round, you're starting, no matter the position you play. Lots of pressure on a young QB though.

 

[Gaolee]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting any of the guys drafted in the last year or two. Think beyond the last couple years. I am trying to think of a top 1-5, or even 10 QB who led his team to greatness, meaning a Super Bowl.
Aha, someone else did the thinking for me. Thank you drafthistory.com:
DraftHistory.com

-Mike

I forgot that Jared Goff was a number one pick. He came pretty close. I never knew Len Dawson was such a high pick. Then again, I never thought about it. I would have guessed Elway was the last number one, but then I would have missed both Eli and Payton Manning.

 

[MJ5150]

One discussion I've tried to start on Twitter was the rush to start drafted QBs. I disagree with that philosophy. Favre had some time behind Chris Miller and in Green Bay, Don "Majik" Majkowski. Rodgers had a couple years behind Favre. I think some of these young kids just get wrecked being thrust in as the starter and oft times the titular savior of the franchise. But nowadays if you get drafted in the first round, you're starting, no matter the position you play. Lots of pressure on a young QB though.

I agree, but I think this is the new age of the NFL, and athletes in general.
These elite athletes have 'brands' now, a huge off the field presence, and entourages of people like social media directors.
They've been pampered and told they are the best greatest thing ever, so they don't come to a team ready to sit on the bench and learn. They come to promote their brand and play.
The financial investment teams make in these players also makes it difficult for ownership to let them sit.
Then, if the player doesn't like the way he's being treated, all he has to do anymore is instruct his social media team to create a campaign for his release/trade, and off he goes.
In my opinion, it's better to grab the late round players, but that requires an excellent scouting program and talent evaluators.

-Mike

 

[mrpackerguy]

I agree, but I think this is the new age of the NFL, and athletes in general.
These elite athletes have 'brands' now, a huge off the field presence, and entourages of people like social media directors.
They've been pampered and told they are the best greatest thing ever, so they don't come to a team ready to sit on the bench and learn. They come to promote their brand and play.
The financial investment teams make in these players also makes it difficult for ownership to let them sit.
Then, if the player doesn't like the way he's being treated, all he has to do anymore is instruct his social media team to create a campaign for his release/trade, and off he goes.
In my opinion, it's better to grab the late round players, but that requires an excellent scouting program and talent evaluators.

-Mike

can't argue with any of that, Mike

 

[GregC]

One discussion I've tried to start on Twitter was the rush to start drafted QBs. I disagree with that philosophy. Favre had some time behind Chris Miller and in Green Bay, Don "Majik" Majkowski. Rodgers had a couple years behind Favre. I think some of these young kids just get wrecked being thrust in as the starter and oft times the titular savior of the franchise. But nowadays if you get drafted in the first round, you're starting, no matter the position you play. Lots of pressure on a young QB though.

I agree, but I think this is the new age of the NFL, and athletes in general.
These elite athletes have 'brands' now, a huge off the field presence, and entourages of people like social media directors.
They've been pampered and told they are the best greatest thing ever, so they don't come to a team ready to sit on the bench and learn. They come to promote their brand and play.
The financial investment teams make in these players also makes it difficult for ownership to let them sit.
Then, if the player doesn't like the way he's being treated, all he has to do anymore is instruct his social media team to create a campaign for his release/trade, and off he goes.
In my opinion, it's better to grab the late round players, but that requires an excellent scouting program and talent evaluators.

-Mike

Using that draft history page to look at recent Super Bowl QBs (I cheated and added Mahomes): Goff sat out the first nine games of his first season, Mahomes only played in the last regular season game, and Eli sat until Week 10.

And on the flip side, Russell Wilson and Peyton started from the get-go and obviously did well. Big Ben replaced Maddox halfway through Game 1 and never looked back.

 

[electracoyote]

I'm rooting for Minshew and Falk. It's a total homer week for me!!

Same here (though not for the same Cougar connection as you ). Third-stringer Cinderella story? Yes please! Falk looked pretty good last game. And I am sad for the Jags losing Foles, and now probably losing Ramsey, so I'd love to see Minshew shine. He's got chops, here's his chance.

In a season where I know my team is going to finish below .500, I'm looking for success stories elsewhere.

 

[Gaolee]

Using that draft history page to look at recent Super Bowl QBs (I cheated and added Mahomes): Goff sat out the first nine games of his first season, Mahomes only played in the last regular season game, and Eli sat until Week 10.

And on the flip side, Russell Wilson and Peyton started from the get-go and obviously did well. Big Ben replaced Maddox halfway through Game 1 and never looked back.

Wilson was a third round pick. He was supposed to sit for a year, but he outperformed the guy who was supposed to be the starter. I don't even remember the guy's name.

One reason number one picks aren't successful right away is because they are number one picks. The team that gets the number one pick has more holes than a pair of old socks. There's no way one person can lead that team to the Super Bowl for a number of years, unless lightening strikes. A lower round pick or even late first round pick may not come into as dire a situation. One person, even a brilliant QB, doesn't do much if there's nobody else on the team who can keep up.

I don't remember Peyton's situation, but as I recall, it took a while for him to get anywhere. Wilson had the advantage of coming onto a team that had been building for a number of years and was already on the upswing, not at the bottom.

Mayfield and Cleveland will be an interesting study. They were bottoming out when he was drafted, but the also had a near complete turnover in personnel and seemed to have drafted an entire roster along with Mayfield. Their rebuild process was a bit different from what's going on in Miami or Arizona. We don't know if it will work, or how fast it will work yet. I don't expect to see the Browns in the Super Bowl this year, but I do expect them to be in the running for a playoff spot. They may or may not make it this year, but they will be in the hunt for a number of years unless something goes completely wrong. Like Kitchens isn't that great. He's got the personnel to work with now.

 

[Gaolee]

And if we do not get a bit of celebration from Pilgrim soon, something is not right!

 

[MJ5150]

Patriots cut ties with Antonio Brown
There you go folks. New England figured out what Pittsburgh and Oakland did too.
Any guesses where he lands next? I'll say Baltimore.

-Mike

 

[fretter]

As usual, anything can happen.

 

[MJ5150]

Interesting how it happened shortly after Belichick cut short his weekly press conference after the barrage of Antonio Brown questions after he told everyone he wouldn't talk about it.
I wonder if he left the podium, walked straight to Kraft's office and told him to get the guy off the team, now.

What I don't get though is when someone being interviewed stands up in front of everyone and makes a comment how they are not going to talk about subject ABC, then people keep asking about ABC anyway.
I can understand Belichick being frustrated enough just to walk away from the podium.

-Mike

 

[Jeff K]

Patriots cut ties with Antonio Brown
There you go folks. New England figured out what Pittsburgh and Oakland did too.
Any guesses where he lands next? I'll say Baltimore.

-Mike

I just came into this thread to say, "Next stop: Baltimore." But you beat me to it. When Oakland released him, I told my wife he'll end up with the Ravens or the Patriots.

But the Ravens already look like they're clicking on all cylinders, so maybe they'll take the approach of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..." It'll be interesting to see if anybody DOES jump out there to sign him...

 

[Picton]

Gee.

How can the Pats possibly win now?

/sarc