No Amps In Ear Monitors

[jalapejoe]

So I am possibly joining a band, well they are writing new songs not playing live for a few months but the guitarists said I don't need my amp for gigging because they use In Ear Monitors? I am unfamiliar with that and doesn't sound like much fun to me, I was looking forward to using my 8x10" or 2x10" with 15" cabs and my new Ampeg VB-4. Anyone know about this no amps and cabs necessary playing out?

 

[micque]

Dont know anything about in ear monitors cause I've never used them, have seen a band just use FOH, DI everything into the board, but the band I'm in for the last 2 years rehearses in a studio once a week and I use a good set of headphones with no amp, the guitarist has an amp because its mic'ed, he also wears headphones, and the drummer is in a room by himself also with headphones, but I personaly never played live without an amp, at gigs I have to feel the sound wave's, have to feel the low frequency's in my bones, its like an ultrasound treatement for my arthritise !

 

[Jazz Ad]

The whole point of in-ears is to avoid amps on stage. The stage looks cleaner and they get you a good mix everywhere you walk without excessive, potentially ear-damaging sound levels.
Amps and in-ears don't work well together. At all.
I agree that the idea doesn't sound very rock'n'roll but provided a good soundguy it works wonders.
200+ lb rigs are fun to use, not so much to carry around. For a frequently gigging band, amps are a burden and I understand why so many go with in-ears.
I also think that anyone using an 8x10 is overkilling it, unless he's playing a stadium.

 

[s0c9]

If the band is ALL on IEM's you don't really need an amp..
A good DI into the PA, with the ability to control your own IEM mix is the shizznitzz for an FOH guy and those on stage.
NO loud stage volumes competing with the PA.
FOH mix is under control

You - if you are wireless - can wander around without changing what you are hearing. NO skipping in or out between monitors, no more cymbals crashing in your ears, and so on.

No.. it ain't what we call "rock n roll" but the techno's love it and once you get used to it, being able to carry your entire rig into a gig in one hand is a whole lot more fun than 5 trips with a cart!!

And lets be honest... unless you on a festival/stadium level, there's few places that really need an 8x10.

 

[morgansterne]

I have always used an amp for bass gigs (adding IEM a couple years ago), but I do keys/rhythm guitar and for that I've gone no amp / all IEM. Works fine, the other band members have wedges to hear me.
It was a pretty loud band and I didn't want to be adding to the onstage noise.


On the other hand if they're all using in ear monitors, your on stage sound shouldn't bother them at all.

The whole point of IEM's for me, contrary to what a previous poster said, was to save my ears from a loud band.
I even practice with them these days, you can hear the vocals really well and I leave practice without my ears ringing. I still have a small amp going for the two band members who are on wedges.
In my keys/rhythm guitar band (now defunct after five very solid years), I brought a small marshall combo amp for the rhythm guitar. The sound guy said he thought it sounded better than the amp modelling pedal I was using, so I kept on using it, even though I didn't need an amp.
I would encourage you to politely insist that they keep an open mind about whether or not you use an amp, and keep your volume down on it.

Are they going to buy you a set of in-ears? They're really not cheap, and my carvin set is barely sufficient in the sound quality department.

EDIT: deleting rogue emojis

 

[dheafey]

My Top 40 cover band has been using IEM's for about 5 years now and all of us carry an amp or monitor. In my case, I sometimes go ampless depending on how much I feel like carrying. For me, an amp adds that extra "oomph" that increases the excitement level.

That being said, IEM's are a substantial investment. 1964 Ears will be about $650 for their quads while Ultimate Ears, Westone, and JH Audio are all around $750-$1,100 (I have JH Audio's JH11's as they have dual low end drivers.) If you can piggy back off of an existing transmitter, you only need a body pack (A Sennheiser EK300 is $500.) The drawback is you'll be sharing the same monitor mix with someone else. If you can afford it and there's an additional AUX OUT available, a transmitter AND receiver is the way to go. However, a system like the Sennheiser EW300 will set you back $1,000.

 

[s0c9]

However, a system like the Sennheiser EW300 will set you back $1,000.

That is the normal NIB (new in box) retail price. However, I got mine NIB for $720, another band member picked up a G3 w/ DUAL body paks for $500 - albeit USED. If you do NOT intend to use the included buds, USED is fine.. as long as it's in VG condition!!

In other words, there are some deals out there... check the usual evilbay and CL sources!

The DIFFERENCE in audio quality (along w/ decent multi-driver IEM's) with the G3 over any lesser models (Carvin, PSM200/300) I've tried is patently obvious. Plus, you get built in frequency scanning and adjustable limiters... to boot!! Well worth the $$ if that's the path one decides on.

 

[P A U L]

I also think that anyone using an 8x10 is overkilling it, unless he's playing a stadium.

And lets be honest... unless you on a festival/stadium level, there's few places that really need an 8x10.

heresy! ...

Of course everyone I know is old school, but they all hate IEMs. In fact a buddy of mine I saw the other night, opted to have really bad monitors, because all he was hearing is drums & a little bit of his bass through the back of the FOH...

I guess, if you have a room mic, to get a little ambience, it can help soften the blow, but you need some sort of FOH/monitor for that as well. Rehearsals would be pretty dry w/o some sort of real amp. I'd probably wear headphones, to at least get some bass...

 

[s0c9]

heresy! ...

LOL - so true.
Heresy and reality often conflict... like guitar players who have volume control!
Or, all drummers keep time.

 

[AuBassMan]

I just started using IEMs fairly recently and I love them. I can control my own mix with my iPhone/iPad. They block out a lot of sound so the volume in my ears is nowhere near as loud as it would be with stage volume. Most people that don't like them seem to be using single drivers. I have Westone UMPro 30s.

 

[s0c9]

Most people that don't like them seem to be using single drivers.

This has been my experience with guitar/bass players over the last 5 or 6 yrs.
Our singer uses a PSM200 system for his IEM's which come with the E215's (single driver) buds. He said they are OK.
Last Sat night we gave him a set of Westone UM10 Pro's to try - still single driver - but he was grinning ear-to-ear for most of the set.
Claimed he could hear all the highs, etc. and we had to adjust a few things for his mix (his iPhone died).
Meaning... evnn the brand of single drivers can make a diff!

However, I highly recommend multiple drivers for anyone other than a singer... especially bass and guitar!

One of our guitarists has gone back to IEM's (due to the results of a recent hearing test). Has a G3 wireless with UE7 buds.. not a cheap solution, but he got a great deal on the G3.. .UE7's were stock price and recommended by the audiologist who specializes in pro-musicians and ran his tests.

 

[jalapejoe]

Wow great responses thanks guys. What would you recommend then? Looking at these: Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed

 

[s0c9]

Wow great responses thanks guys. What would you recommend then? Looking at these: Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed

There's simply no choice between the 3 you have listed... The G3 wins hands down - tho' not sure why you need a dual body pack unit?
You can get some great deals on the G3 - if you look around.

 

[AuBassMan]

I have the Shure PSM 300. It's easy to use, no bells and whistles that I don't need...stereo if needed, uses AA batteries. I don't use the 215's that came with it, I went with the Westone UM Pro 30 triple drivers.

 

[FuturePrimitive]

Another option is to go with a wired solution. I used to be wireless (Line 6 G30/G90/X2 and Carvin EM900 IEMs) but it adds a lot of complexity and failure points. Sure I lost a little freedom of movement but most of the places I play I can still get to the other side of the stage (if there is one) if I need to. The benefit is massive cost savings, lower complexity (no batteries, dirt simple set up and adjustment), no chance of interference, and outstanding sound clarity.

I went with [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from Jump Audio and couldn't be happier with it. Single (combined) instrument and monitor feed cable, beefy body pack, easy to use, great quality.

 

[s0c9]

Another option is to go with a wired solution. I used to be wireless (Line 6 G30/G90/X2 and Carvin EM900 IEMs) but it adds a lot of complexity and failure points. Sure I lost a little freedom of movement but most of the places I play I can still get to the other side of the stage (if there is one) if I need to. The benefit is massive cost savings, lower complexity (no batteries, dirt simple set up and adjustment), no chance of interference, and outstanding sound clarity.

I went with [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from Jump Audio and couldn't be happier with it. Single (combined) instrument and monitor feed cable, beefy body pack, easy to use, great quality.

I have to disagree with the bolded verbiage above.
True, there are lots of ways to setup IEM's, and I've been thru most at the "non-touring pro level". From wired personal monitoring units with feeds from FOH/own amp, to wired via Behringer and Avioms systems, separate IEM monitor consoles with onboard compressor/limiter device wired to headphone amps and phones, to wireless in and out.
IME - by far the simplest approach - setup time, etc. - is wireless. But its not a panacea!
Only need cables from console to wireless xmitter, body pak w/ batteries and GOOD buds.
Plus, you get FULL control over your own IEM mix with a decent digital console - via software and remote wireless connection.
Once setup - Power up and go... No pieces parts, cable runs (short and long) between devices, volume levels at source, headphone amp, and so on with wireless.

All that said, much of it depends on WHAT wireless system and which buds you are using. It makes a HUGE difference.
It's no different than comparing a 10" Kustom vs a Meyer MJF212 wedge on stage!
Which would you pick?? With wireless IEM's it's NOT in the fingers.

Yes, I used the Carvin EM900 (and PSM 200) for a few yrs.. yes, I had audio issues (mostly dropouts) that varied from venue to venue, but I eventually figured out that the upper frequencies minimized that on both devices. Now with my G3, I can scan for open frequencies and pick one, but again, I have set it to the upper frequency range and haven't had any issues and don't scan at a venue unless I get issues (none so far!).

Finally, some folks with NEVER adjust to IEM's on stage - wired or not. I know quite a few.
I have said this before - had I KNOWN 5 yrs ago - that the upper end wireless systems (G3, PSM900/1000, mipro, etc.) with GOOD multi-driver buds were as good as I have found them to be... I could have SAVED thousands of $$$ getting to that place, and bought 3 or 4 of them already.

DON'T CHEAP on wireless and DON'T CHEAP on buds (multi-driver, custom fit IMHO).

You WILL NOT BE HAPPY if you do..
My $0.02

 

[FuturePrimitive]

I have to disagree with the bolded verbiage above.
True, there are lots of ways to setup IEM's, and I've been thru most. From wired personal monitoring units with feeds from FOH and own amp, to wired via Behringer and Avioms systems + separate monitor consoles, to wireless in and out.
IME - by far the simplest approach - setup time, etc. - is wireless. But its not a panacea!
Only need cables from console to wireless xmitter, body pak w/ batteries and GOOD buds.
Plus, you get FULL control over your own IEM mix with a decent digital console - via software and remote wireless connection.
Once setup - Power up and go... No pieces parts, cable runs (short and long) between devices, volume levels at source, headphone amp, and so on with wireless.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I don't see how adding something with it's own settings, input/output levels, and power requirements is simpler than what I'm using. With the IXM thing I linked above the physical setup is virtually the same as yours except the console feed goes to the IXM input instead of a transmitter. I don't have any more pieces/components, I have less than I used to actually. Bass and buds plug into one bodypack, which then leads (via IXM combo cable) to my pedal board and monitor feed either at the console if it's on stage or a return on the snake if not. Perhaps it's different with other wired solutions pieced together from various components but that's not what I'm using, I think the IXM may be unique in that respect.

And I would still have full control over my IEM mix the same way you do assuming a digital console with remote access, that's a totally separate discussion from wired vs. wireless IEMs.

Please be clear, I'm not arguing against good wireless, I'd certainly go back to it if budget allowed. Rather, I'm pointing out there are viable wired solutions if cost is a factor but you still need a good sounding, low frustration set up. Just like you said, you can't cheap out on wireless. Or buds, I went with 1964 Quads for mine and decided wired was the way to go to do them justice.

 

[s0c9]

I'm not trying to be argumentative.
.
.
Please be clear, I'm not arguing against good wireless, I'd certainly go back to it if budget allowed. Rather, I'm pointing out there are viable wired solutions if cost is a factor but you still need a good sounding, low frustration set up. Just like you said, you can't cheap out on wireless. Or buds, I went with 1964 Quads for mine and decided wired was the way to go to do them justice.

I most certainly did not take your post in that manner. I was disagreeing with your statement about "wireless ... adds a lot of complexity and failure points."
I'm definitely NOT saying your IXM solution is bad or shouldn't be used as - I KNOW - budget is ALWAYS a factor in these decisions.
Nor am I deriding ANY wired solution.. you have to do what works for you.
I was sharing my experiences hoping some TB'er might read it and benefit - being a frequently gigging bassist, my budget supports it and my hearing benefits from the solution I am using.

But.. there are potential failure points in any signal path. Due to there [generally] being more pieces-parts for wired, I'm saying that IME there aren't any MORE in a wireless vs a wired or even standard wedge solution.

 

[FuturePrimitive]

I was sharing my experiences hoping some TB'er might read it and benefit

I expect nothing less. In fact, I bought my Quads (Qis I guess they're called now) based on your and others input in the 1964 Ears owners thread. And I literally bought your EM900 a while back!

But.. there are potential failure points in any signal path.

Tell me about it, my day job basically boils down to analyzing failure points. Some of that bleeds into everything I do so I tend to keep things simple and carry a lot of spares.

 

[mattgreven]

This is a great read all--thank you! I'm strongly considering some quality wireles IEM's now as well. My band recently encountered a pub with ambient volume well above the capabilities of our monitors--hence, we count hear squat. IEM's would've given us tight monitors w/o feedback, and I could easily buy a nice set for what I've got in my TH500 and pair of 1x 12's! Add to that the soundcraft ui16 mixer--6 aux outs, mix from phones.