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"No dead spots"... WHAT???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 271037
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#261
Actually, the most important thing for me with dead spots isn't how bad they are but where they are located. If they are in the typical area around 3rd-6th fret on the G-string I don't find them too problematic because I'm used to it. But when they turn up in other areas, like higher up on the G-strings or pretty much anywhere on the lower strings it can potentially make the bass useless to me. At least for live gigs. I've had a couple of pretty bad experiences where I didn't realise how bad the dead spot on a new bass was until I played it through a huge PA. For recording it's different of course. I have a lot more patience with quirky instruments in the studio.
 
#262
All FSO's have dead spots and they're generally in the same places (high C on the G string is the most common one). They're not defects - they have to do with the fact that FSO's necks are all pieces of wood about the same length and thickness, and they have resonances (in terms of sympathetic vibration) in approximately the same places.

There is no need to tear up or throw away a FSO with dead spots. The easiest fix is to add weight to the headstock. This is easily done with clip-on weights and such, and you can invent your own. Thick washers stuck to the back of the headstock with double-stick tape and so on.

Or just traditional steel tuners will do the job too. My Tony Franklin, for example has 1/2 ton of tuners and a Hipshot D-tuner on the E, and its dead spots are very nicely reduced by the additional tonnage. My L2000, OTOH, has the G&L ultralight aluminums on it, which are very light, and it has very hard and strong dead spots at the high C on the G and at the open G as well. That lets me know it's a very well constructed and firmly put together instrument when I hit those notes.

You can use compression to help even the dead notes out, and calm down the "wolf" notes too.

Otherwise, just remember that everyone else playing a FSO without the same weights on their headstocks have the same dead spots as you, so they'll get the same strange looks as you when you play those notes too.

Nothing to see here, move along, move along.... :)

L
 
#263
Have anyone else noticed dead spots on the A-string as well? For example, lets say you have a dead spot at the 5th fret(C) of the G-string. I have noticed the 3rd fret A-string(lower corresponding C) would also be a dead spot in, pretty much, every case. Anyone else noticed that?
 
#264
Sparuto said:
Have anyone else noticed dead spots on the A-string as well? For example, lets say you have a dead spot at the 5th fret(C) of the G-string. I have noticed the 3rd fret A-string(lower corresponding C) would also be a dead spot in, pretty much, every case. Anyone else noticed that?
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I had an issue with one bass where the open A string sounded weak. That one never worked out for me.
 
#268
rogerb said:
I'll upload a screenshot of walking up on the G string in Garage Band, and a .mp3 of my deadspot. Top notes may be choking, could be the problem with the dead spot as well, I'll have to check that. The neck definitely has a bow around the 5th fret, maybe I just need to straighten it out a little.

View attachment 3618476
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Turnaround said:
I heard some notes choking, but not a dead spot per se.
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It's a "weak area". I think it sounds obviously horrible (sorry, but I own several just like it).
And if the neck is too narrow/thin, the horror spreads all over the neck.
 
#270
Deleted member 271037 said:
I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?
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It is definitely 2. And you cannot only hear them, you can see them. Just watch the string vibration from the 3rd to 8th fret on the G string. The string vibrates once plucked and then stops vibrating almost immediately. when you've hit the dead spot. Long ago I used to think it was a bad fret or a neck defect, which it can be especially when it's in other locations on the neck. But if it's on the G string in the area around the 6th fret plus or minus a few frets, it's probably a dead spot. I've recently been on a mission to find a bass without a dead spot and may have found a few weeks ago, but it was a PRS Grainger for over $5000! I kept checking it and couldn't believe my own eyes and ears and still have doubts after leaving the store. I checked out five different basses today, four G&Ls and a MusicMan, no luck. Maybe I should just learn to live with it like most others seem to have done?
 
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#271
jeffpdavid said:
It is definitely 2. And you cannot only hear them, you can see them. Just watch the string vibration from the 3rd to 8th fret on the G string. The string vibrates once plucked and then stops vibrating almost immediately. when you've hit the dead spot. Long ago I used to think it was a bad fret or a neck defect, which it can be especially when it's in other locations on the neck. But if it's on the G string in the area around the 6th fret plus or minus a few frets, it's probably a dead spot. I've recently been on a mission to find a bass without a dead spot and may have found a few weeks ago, but it was a PRS Grainger for over $5000! I kept checking it and couldn't believe my own eyes and ears and still have doubts after leaving the store. I checked out five different basses today, four G&Ls and a MusicMan, no luck. Maybe I should just learn to live with it like most others seem to have done?
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2x2 headstocks don’t have dead spots :sleep:

I use an aluminum EGC bolt on neck
 
#272
I'm very sensitive to this type of thing so my parameters of what constitute a "dead spot" are wider than some other people's might be. For a lot of people a dead spot is a severe issue where the note doesn't sound properly or the fundamental dies almost instantly leaving only a harmonic. It's fairly easy to find a bass that doesn't have this bad of a problem, and that's what I think is happening most of the time when people say their bass has no dead spots. However, it's very tough to find a bass that has no perceptible resonance issues of any kind. I've never encountered a bass where literally every single note was perfect. They're all going to have that weaker area halfway up the G string for instance. I also tend to find issues on a lot of A strings as you get up past the 10th fret or so. Then there's the dreaded weak E string which my Rickenbacker had - by far the worst kind of dead spot imo.

The trick is to find a bass with as little of an issue as possible. You can find ones where that weak spot halfway up the G string is minimal and the notes still ring out well enough. They're not going to be the same as the notes lower or higher, and you'll still have that fundamental dying away more quickly, but it won't make that deflating "plunk" that ruins what you were trying to play. When I first got my Pedulla Pentabuzz it had a bad dead spot on the G string. Since it's fretless it was even less tolerable. But I brought it to Mike and he was able to greatly improve it without just "shifting" it somewhere else. If you take the pickups out of my bass you can see all the crazy routing marks where he drilled holes to change the mass. It's all about dialing in the mass of the bass just right. Since each piece of wood is different I would venture to say that most basses could benefit from some of this custom drilling treatment, but it's too custom for luthiers to do for every bass, and totally impossible in mass production.
 
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#274
jeffpdavid said:
It is definitely 2. And you cannot only hear them, you can see them. Just watch the string vibration from the 3rd to 8th fret on the G string. The string vibrates once plucked and then stops vibrating almost immediately. when you've hit the dead spot. Long ago I used to think it was a bad fret or a neck defect, which it can be especially when it's in other locations on the neck. But if it's on the G string in the area around the 6th fret plus or minus a few frets, it's probably a dead spot. I've recently been on a mission to find a bass without a dead spot and may have found a few weeks ago, but it was a PRS Grainger for over $5000! I kept checking it and couldn't believe my own eyes and ears and still have doubts after leaving the store. I checked out five different basses today, four G&Ls and a MusicMan, no luck. Maybe I should just learn to live with it like most others seem to have done?
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I agree with both of you. In fact, dead spots are simply a fact. You can also "feel" them too in the vibration of the neck and body.
 
#275
I suspect with my style of playing I don’t hold a note long enough to find most of them. I remember finding one not too long ago and it seemed to manifest itself as a “shorter note”. I have a bunch of basses and can’t remember which one…
 
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#279
I agree that most basses have dead spots to some degree, but some are worse that others, and in some it may not be noticeable to the unaided ear, but can be measured. There was a good deal of scientific research on dead spots done by Dr. Helmut Fleischer in the late 90's, you can find links to his research below:

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#280
JakobT said:
I agree that most basses have dead spots to some degree, but some are worse that others, and in some it may not be noticeable to the unaided ear, but can be measured. There was a good deal of scientific research on dead spots done by Dr. Helmut Fleischer in the late 90's, you can find links to his research below:

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Click to expand...

I keep a copy of the Fleischer on my desktop...it's a good physics refresher if nothing else.

Riis
 

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