"No dead spots"... WHAT???

[Dr Zee]

I hadn't thought about dead spots for years and this has been an interesting if not arduous thread to work through.
So I picked up my favorite bass, the one in my avatar, and played slow one fret at a time and did indeed find a dead spot, at the ninth fret on the D. Hadn't really noticed it before because it wasn't all that bad, the harmonic came up quickly as the fundamental died.
So the I plugged in my trusty '84 P bass and sure enough, there was a dead spot at the C on the G string.
Which brings me to something I don't quite get. If the resonant note is C in the second octave, way does the same C on the D string ring true ?

 

[attackz]

I hadn't thought about dead spots for years and this has been an interesting if not arduous thread to work through.
So I picked up my favorite bass, the one in my avatar, and played slow one fret at a time and did indeed find a dead spot, at the ninth fret on the D. Hadn't really noticed it before because it wasn't all that bad, the harmonic came up quickly as the fundamental died.
So the I plugged in my trusty '84 P bass and sure enough, there was a dead spot at the C on the G string.
Which brings me to something I don't quite get. If the resonant note is C in the second octave, way does the same C on the D string ring true ?

That's a great question. I would love to know the answer.

 

[mongo2]

If the resonant note is C in the second octave, way does the same C on the D string ring true ?

I've also wondered that in the past and the differences I can see are different string length for the note, different string size and mass, string stopped at a different neck position in the larger/stiffer part of the neck and probably some other parameters I don't see are at work.

However, I stopped wondering about it when I started using short scales which I've found to not have much of an issue with deadspots.

 

[GreyEagle]

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".

Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?[/QUOTE]

I've had a nagging problem with the 5th fret of the G string (insert lewd comment here ______) on just about all but the last two basses I've owned (oops! make that 3 - my Dan Armstrong was consistent throughout). It's a matter of one's ears & expectations. The dead spot wasn't a deal breaker & I was the ONLY person noticing it, so the show went on!

 

[RayleighBlue]

I’ve also had numerous basses over the years. All of the traditional headed basses had dead spots in the usual places. I’ve also had a couple graphite headless basses that had some bad dead spots. I have briefly had two basses that had no dead spots, a Steinberger Synapse and a Kiesel Vader. The headstock is a big part of the physics of why basses have dead spots, but there is something to the body shape that also influences the result. I think if players would let go of the headstock bass technology would improve.

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

 

[jazzolamike]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

 

[jazzolamike]

I had never experienced a "dead spot" until this past year. I play a Fretless BN5 F Bass. Took it to a good luthier, after consulting with the F Bass folks. The neck needed to be shaved slightly (1000th's) from wear. Was told this could be done a few times before needing to replace the neck. Plays great again and Zero, no, nada dead spots.

 

[Doug4321]

One thing-
If I want a sustained note with a strong fundamental I generally play high on the A or D rather than low on the G. Anyway, regardless of dead spot.

 

[Scottgun]

Jaco only needed 4 dead spots.

 

[Low Crow]

Yeah, I've hear that claim about non-wood necks too but I've never tried one. But how exactly does that work? They must still have a resonant frequency right? Or does the materials you mentioned somehow shift the resonant frequency out of hearing range?

But I've hear the same claim made for wooden neck with graphite rods too and they DO have dead spots (at least mine do).

 

[chadds]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

I think you may be sensitive enough to notice them. Perhaps your touch & playing style which is yours alone exposes them to you.
Perhaps some bassists are compensating for their dead spots so don’t notice them.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I think you may be sensitive enough to notice them. Perhaps your touch & playing style which is yours alone exposes them to you.
Perhaps some bassists are compensating for their dead spots so don’t notice them.

Playing style will definitely make a difference. I play mostly "normal" fingerstyle but I also use a pick and/or a foam mute from time to time. The only thing I never do is slapping. If I only played fast, aggressive music using a pick I probably wouldn't consider dead spots a problem at all. When using a foam mute the dead spots will also be somewhat less apparent. But whenever warm sustained notes are required dead spots are a total dealbreaker for me. It's not always an acceptable solution to play the problematic note further up the neck. The timbre of the tone will often change too much and stick out almost as much as the dead spot.

 

[David Jayne]

I hadn't thought about dead spots for years and this has been an interesting if not arduous thread to work through.
So I picked up my favorite bass, the one in my avatar, and played slow one fret at a time and did indeed find a dead spot, at the ninth fret on the D. Hadn't really noticed it before because it wasn't all that bad, the harmonic came up quickly as the fundamental died.
So the I plugged in my trusty '84 P bass and sure enough, there was a dead spot at the C on the G string.
Which brings me to something I don't quite get. If the resonant note is C in the second octave, way does the same C on the D string ring true ?

Because that C on the D string is further up into the stiff part of the neck.

 

[TheCouchBassist]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

It’s number 2. There are so many TBrs who claim none of their basses have any. You give me 30 seconds with 95% of the basses out there and I’ll show you the dead spot....ha ha ha.

 

[Manuel Bass]

If you mean dead spots as loosy fingerboard lines or frets then i would say that mine don't have one - Ibanez GWB1005.

Don’t you see my private message?

 

[H2okie]

Ok, I started this mess so I guess dinner will have to wait a while longer, lol. I get the impression that some of you aren't exactly sure what dead spots really are so I did a quick recording of one of my worst examples. This is possibly THE worst dead spot on every bass I own. This dead spot is at the 7th fret on the G-string.

In the attached clip I played the offending note twice + two frets up for comparison. Then the dead spot again twice + one octave down for comparison. And finally the dead spot again twice. As you will hear the other notes have normal sustain but the dead spot dies into an overtone almost immediately. This fret is completely useless for any sustaining notes. With this particular bass it was bad enough that I had to stop using it live. D is not the best note to be "missing" for live performances. And deadspots get FAR more pronounced on stage through a powerful PA. When you hit a dead spot like this one through a PA it feels like all the air get sucked out of you and the room is about to implode (well sort of...).

The attached clip is of course totally unprocessed, just a completely dry signal directly to a clean DI. No notes have been deliberately muted.

Laptop speakers not recommended.

And please note that I chose the WORST bass I could think of for best illustrating what a dead spot is. Most basses aren't nearly as bad as this but in my experience they all have dead spots to some extent.

(Oh, and apart from this one dead spot it's actually a nice bass!)

I am a bit of an engineering type that often listens to “equipment” rather than music. (I’m not proud of that). I also chased this dead spot issue. It does have a lot to do with the head. That clamp on device actually does work to eliminate or move the dead spot. I have a lot of basses. I only really notice it on a fender jazz 5. Clamp on worked. But eventually I got ride or it ... I really don’t notice it when I’m playing music. But it did bother me for quite a while.

 

[rogerb]

I changed my strings from Fender roundwounds to D'addario nylon tapewounds and that seems to have helped a lot, much less notable dead spot (now certainly playable!). It may just be new strings, but the tapewounds are lower tension so that required some loosening, a half to full turn of the truss rod.

 

[jazzyvee]

A few years ago i interviewed Marcus Miller for my radio programme and amongst a lot of other things, I asked him about dead spots. Basically, he said he uses them to his advantage in a song where that particular note needs less emphasis, and he will deliberately play the note at the dead spot.

 

[PWRL]

All my basses have them, but in some they are more pronounced than others. Both my P basses have them in the C range on the G string. They're P basses, after all. My Jazz has the same thing, but less pronounced, same with my Streamer. The Rick 4004L I had, that thing was different. The dead zones were in different spots, and it had some seriously loud notes, too.
I just expect a Fender style to have that diminished C range on the G string. For a long time, I never knew what a dead spot even was, I just thought that's how a bass sounded.

 

[jazzyvee]

I haven't found any dead spots on any of my basses nor has anyone else who has played them.