"No dead spots"... WHAT???

[India_Sierra]

Some people hear dead spots in every bass they pick up, and it must be a curse for them. They have a barrier in their way (self-invented of course) which means they can never truly be happy.

I've played hundreds of basses since I started playing aged 13, and only a handful of those were so seriously hampered by a dead spot that I'd have considered them fatally flawed. Most of those were Musicman basses, which seem to be quite susceptible to this phenomenon.

 

[GretschWretch]

Some people hear dead spots in every bass they pick up, and it must be a curse for them. They have a barrier in their way (self-invented of course) which means they can never truly be happy.

I've played hundreds of basses since I started playing aged 13, and only a handful of those were so seriously hampered by a dead spot that I'd have considered them fatally flawed. Most of those were Musicman basses, which seem to be quite susceptible to this phenomenon.

Notes that simply disappear in ensemble are not a self-invented barrier. In rapid passages dead spots are tolerable. In passages which require sustained notes, they can be a deal-breaker.

 

[attackz]

Also played hundreds of basses since I started playing at 13. I don't recall any of them being dead spot free. That said, I agree with @India_Sierra that very few basses have a dead spot so bad that I'd consider it fatally flawed.

I wish we could agree that all basses have them and just talk about how severe the dead spot is when buying / selling. I'd also like to do away with the idea that dead spots are any indication of quality, specifically that more expensive basses shouldn't have them. They do, but it's usually not a big deal!

To answer the OPs question, I don't think you've been unlucky. I think some of us must misunderstand what a dead spot is or consider "no dead spot" to mean "no really bad dead spot".

 

[bbh]

Also played hundreds of basses since I started playing at 13. I don't recall any of them being dead spot free. That said, I agree with @India_Sierra that very few basses have a dead spot so bad that I'd consider it fatally flawed.

I wish we could agree that all basses have them and just talk about how severe the dead spot is when buying / selling. I'd also like to do away with the idea that dead spots are any indication of quality, specifically that more expensive basses shouldn't have them. They do, but it's usually not a big deal!

To answer the OPs question, I don't think you've been unlucky. I think some of us must misunderstand what a dead spot is or consider "no dead spot" to mean "no really bad dead spot".

To the last sentence, I agree with the ‘some of us’ part. That being said no dead spots mean all notes have maximum sustain and tone. So on my basses, no dead spots means 0 dead spots period. I wouldn't be accepted in so many studio projects if I should up with anything less than 100% perfectly functioning instruments although I might have gotten away with it on some of the freebies I do for my friends.
Can you think of any album where you or someone else noticed dead spots? I have no knowledge of this and just curious to throw the conversation in a slightly different direction.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

To the last sentence, I agree with the ‘some of us’ part. That being said no dead spots mean all notes have maximum sustain and tone. So on my basses, no dead spots means 0 dead spots period. I wouldn't be accepted in so many studio projects if I should up with anything less than 100% perfectly functioning instruments although I might have gotten away with it on some of the freebies I do for my friends.
Can you think of any album where you or someone else noticed dead spots? I have no knowledge of this and just curious to throw the conversation in a slightly different direction.

Someone posted a clip with Jamerson that had an audible dead spot earlier in this thread. And I'm sure there thousands of examples out there. I mean, think of the number of Fender P-basses used on recordings over the last 60 years! Every single P-bass I've ever played has had dead spots. EVERY single one! If anyone says they've got a Fender P-bass with no dead spots I'm simply won't believe it until proven otherwise.

I'm not saying all P-basses have UNACCEPTABLY bad dead spots though.

 

[David Jayne]

To the last sentence, I agree with the ‘some of us’ part. That being said no dead spots mean all notes have maximum sustain and tone. So on my basses, no dead spots means 0 dead spots period. I wouldn't be accepted in so many studio projects if I should up with anything less than 100% perfectly functioning instruments although I might have gotten away with it on some of the freebies I do for my friends.
Can you think of any album where you or someone else noticed dead spots? I have no knowledge of this and just curious to throw the conversation in a slightly different direction.

When you have an instrument with a dead spot that you otherwise really love you learn to play around it. You don't even think about it. I have one that is essentially missing a note- D on the G string. I gig it all the time and nobody but me is aware of it. It's just one note.

 

[JZQuantum]

I'll pick #3...most bassists know about dead spots but it doesn't bother them much.

For me personally, I hate them. I've returned new basses for this reason. My Peavey Fury, Warmoth P and Warmoth J do not have noticable dead spots anywhere. At least from frets 1 to 12 which is where I hang out the most.

My Modulus Quantum 5 didn't have dead spots anywhere...at least they weren't noticable to me. Stupidly, I sold it.

 

[JZQuantum]

Some people hear dead spots in every bass they pick up, and it must be a curse for them. They have a barrier in their way (self-invented of course) which means they can never truly be happy.

I've played hundreds of basses since I started playing aged 13, and only a handful of those were so seriously hampered by a dead spot that I'd have considered them fatally flawed. Most of those were Musicman basses, which seem to be quite susceptible to this phenomenon.

Funny you mention Musicman. I have a used SR 5H and it doesn't have dead spots. I bought a new SR5 some years back that and it had very annoying dead spots. That one was sent back.

 

[attackz]

Funny you mention Musicman. I have a used SR 5H and it doesn't have dead spots. I bought a new SR5 some years back that and it had very annoying dead spots. That one was sent back.

@JZQuantum I'm being very nitpicky I know, but if I pushed would you say that your non-dead-spot basses maybe do have the tiniest bit of deadness somewhere around the normal zone, it's just not enough to remotely bother you?

 

[chienmort]

I seem to remember that Fender did some work in this sone years ago. The things that caused the problem were big headstocks. Bolt on necks.

So the idea was to get rid of the heatstock and go neck through (thru if you like, I am a Brit).

That then becomes an anti-Fender or Steinbergerso Fender just carried on regardless. To reduce dead spots, 2L 2R rather than four in a line. Graphite neck ( a good one) Status in the UK seem to be good and I have heard of some variable ones from other manufacturers.

In reality though I rarely need to leave a note ringing long enough to worry about.

 

[robmclucky]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

Have you tried carbon graphite necks like Modulus or Moses?

 

[JZQuantum]

@JZQuantum I'm being very nitpicky I know, but if I pushed would you say that your non-dead-spot basses maybe do have the tiniest bit of deadness somewhere around the normal zone, it's just not enough to remotely bother you?

That's correct. I've had some real whoppers when it comes to dead spots, though. I had a Gibson Tobias many years ago that was horrible. Literally 1 second of sustain on 2 of the G string frets.

If it sounds good to my ear and records well, then the bass is good enough for my needs. I'm sure an oscilloscope or a better ear would find a dead spot on my current stable of basses, it's just that I can't hear anyrhing bad and my recordings always sound great from this perspective.

The thing about the Modulus I had is that I think it still had dead spots like a wood bass. The frequency of the dead spot in the case of this graphite neck bass must have been outside the range I normally play. It was crystal clear.

 

[dougness]

Can you think of any album where you or someone else noticed dead spots? I have no knowledge of this and just curious to throw the conversation in a slightly different direction.

The Antisocial Club tune on the CD of the same name. It’s by Alan Pasqua with Peter Erskine on drums. Listen to the opening of the tune played by the bass player. It sounds like a P with flats. The third and fourth notes of the bass line are C and D on the G string (5th and 7th frets). That’s a pretty darn good example of the Fender dead spot on a professional recording.

 

[dougness]

Most of the basses I’ve owned in my nearly 50 years of playing have had a dead spot somewhere to a greater or lesser degree. I learned to hate dead spots in the ‘70s because my P bass had so many. I became obsessive about it. But then I bought a Pedulla 6-string Thunderbass and the only minor dead spot I could find was on the 7th fret of the B string where it didn’t matter at all to me. That bass, with all the beautiful hardwoods glued together however, had no expression and I ended up selling it. I had a Mike Lull 5 string that had a horrendous dead spot in the middle of the fingerboard that he was completely unwilling to acknowledge, and that bass also had no response to attack and I got rid of it. Now I don’t care about dead spots because in my estimation the basses that have them are the most responsive to finger attack and so are the most expressive.

 

[Your Uncle Al]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

I have an old precision with 23 year old flatwounds and a rubber mute under the bridge. the whole bass is a deadspot and I love the sound. if I need sustain i'll us a cheap olp stingray I bought with roundwounds. but 99% of my playing is on the precision. I've got compliments on how close to an upright it sounds .deadspots can sound great if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I have an old precision with 23 year old flatwounds and a rubber mute under the bridge. the whole bass is a deadspot and I love the sound. if I need sustain i'll us a cheap olp stingray I bought with roundwounds. but 99% of my playing is on the precision. I've got compliments on how close to an upright it sounds .deadspots can sound great if that's what you're looking for.

I know what you mean and I'm a huge fan of flats+foam but deadspots isn't just about sustain. It's also about the loss of fundamental and a change in timbre. So your whole bass is most definitely not a deadspot. A foam muted tone = absolutely gorgeous in the right setting! Deadspots =nasty, thin overtones. It's not the same thing at all!

 

[Ian Lewis]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

I recall my Ibanez' G string second fret sounded a little weaker than the rest of the neck, but I don't play it any more. I've been playing Warwicks for the past seven years and have yet to find a dead spot on either.

 

[Zenbassie]

You will NEVER hear an audience member say "dang, too bad about that 1/8th note in the intro that sounded microscopically different than the preceding and subsequent notes, kinda ruined the performance".

Strangely, I once had an audience member say something not unlike this to me. Other things he said convinced me that he didn't have a clue though.

 

[ron berry]

I made a frankenbass, I put a fender neck on an Ibanez body and had it for sale, very even tone all over, no dead spots, or so I thought... The first seriously interested customer found a really bad woolf tone but only if you played ONE particular double-stop and it sounded horrible and it was a sixth interval pretty high on the neck that i doubt anyone else would have found. I tried lots of things and tweaked the frets, action, setup, weight distribution, strings, etc. but it was always there. I almost always make through neck basses, usually three laminations and double carbon reinforcement and stainless truss rod and high stiffness fretboards and I never had a problem with uneven response. The through neck bass I think acts more like one unit which has a host of resonances without the neck having its own strong frequency like a bolt on one. It could also be that the necks being extra stiff didn't have their dead notes anywhere down low so they weren't as noticable (high notes have less string and therefore less string mass and don't move the neck as much.) In my experience basses suffer more than guitars( I suspect the string weight is the major factor as it moves everything else so much more) and the more peaky and resonant the bass is the more noticable the dead or woolf notes become particularly if the top end response and the harmonic content is strong. I notice this thread features a few comments where the better (more resonant) bass that sound great had the worst dead notes. Similarly very resonant peaky acoustic guitars that sound great unplugged give you the worst feedback plugged in. The spectrum analyser gives you large peaks on a good instrument, it is called responsiveness usually, many things can be done to move them around so they don't land on a note but very few makers bother to spectrum analyse their builds hence the great variability IMHO.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Dead spots fall in the same bucket as floppy B strings for me. I've avoided experiencing them so far.