"No dead spots"... WHAT???

[HolmeBass]

I currently own over 30 basses. Some are cheap entry level stuff or quirky vintage models but most of them are quite expensive, top-of-the-range or custom made instruments.

I must have owned more than 50 basses over the years.

Counting the basses I've played in stores or borrowed... I must have played HUNDREDS of basses.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had dead spots. Some were less noticable that others and the exact location on the neck could vary. But they ALL had dead spots. Bolt-on, neck through, set neck, graphite rods... they ALL have dead spots in my experience.

Looking at the physics behind dead spots I don't understand how it would even be possible to design a resonating wooden instrument such as the bass guitar without any deadspots. Even a device like the Fatfinger, which is designed to "tune out" deadspots, doesn't really remove them. The deadspots are simply moved to other notes.

Yet, hardly a week goes by without reading a NBD thread here on Talkbass where someone says their new bass has "no dead spots".


Which leaves me with these two options:

1) I'm the most unlucky guy ever when it comes to basses and dead spots (plus I must have gotten the science behind deadspots all wrong).

or

2) Lots of people don't really understand what dead spots are. I asked a friend who is a guitar player about this and he thought a dead spot was simply a bad fret. Is this a common misconception?

Anyway, I'm genuinely baffled by the number of claims about "no dead spots" around here, even on the cheapest entry level basses.

So which one is it, 1) or 2)?

Seems like the first two posts point to 3)...

3) People do not discern the deadspots; they simply don’t matter enough to many people for them to care or even notice.

Every instrument I have ever played has had them. Every once in a while I have to play around them, given a song’s key and bass line. They don’t impact quick notes, at least for me they don’t, although I still notice them.

If a note is held out, or I am using an octaver, then they really do cause problems for me and I have to play those parts in another spot on the fretboard.

 

[Tommyc]

By definition a node is a place of little or no amplitude. So a “resonant node” would be a contradiction. Your octave spot on any string in which you sound an octave harmonic is a node. You’ll notice you can continue to hold your finger on the node and the harmonic continues to ring because it’s not vibrating at the node but by half on each side of the node. The neck is often subject to having the misfortune of a node right where a note is sounded so it comes off as short but as mentioned strategic placement of weights can move the node enough that the note can be ringing again. There was the Fatfinger and another fellow here placed weights in holes drilled under the tuner plates.

 

[David Jayne]

All of the 'Fender style' basses I've owned have one at or near C on the G string. It's just a fact of life. I had a Modulus that didn't have any that I could detect. Also one Pedulla fiver. Still have that one. Oh, and a Westone 'Rail.' None there either. Funny thing: I tend to prefer the overall sound and playability of basses that have the 'classic' dead spot at or around C on the G string. Go figure. Doesn't really bother me much.

 

[rylie]

dead spots = upgrade bass

 

[Yahboy]

Try this experiment.

If you have Fender/Squier bass has serious NOTABLE dead spot example dead C#on G string. Try press the same fret note ( A# ) on E string . Pluck and carefully check the fretted A# note, she has bit shorter sustain/ringing and less meaty tone compare to fretted A and B.

If this problem appear on you fender/Squier bass, just put a clip on headstock tuner on the top of the headstock and compare yourself.

Hopehelp.

Off topic.
The rubber pad on clip on tuner work different than Fat finger.
My opinion is, the rubber pad assob/damp the extra vabration on headstock ( string vabrate energy loss ) to bring back the fretted note sound normal it should VS add mass by Fatfinger the move up/move down the deadspot.

 

[rogerb]

Just listening with the bass unplugged is better for finding dead spots. Dead spots are less evident through an amp or recording. That James Jamerson isolated track dead spot on the D must have just been a thump acoustically.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

After listening to the clip on headphones, I do think this is something that can be fixed with compression. The fundamental is there, the tone is very well rounded (quite nice, just like all the other notes). It’s just lower volume.

But that's THE biggest problem with deap spots: The really bad ones can NOT be fixed using compression. Dead spots is not just a volume drop. It's a frequency thing too. The frequency content of the tone changes massively. You lose the fundamental and are left with thin sounding overtones. When playing solo it might not sound THAT bad but in the context of a mix or through a PA it will seem like the bass simly disappears. Like I said, the bass in the clip I posted couldn't be used live anymore because the high D completely disappeared in the PA. Most replies here says isn't really that bad but in a real life situation that bass was utterly useless unless I avoided that fret.

Lesser dead spot can be fixed to some extent using compression but it's a compromise at best in my experience.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

On my two Warmoth necked basses (one fretless and one fretted) I can feel the dead spots more so than seeing them. When playing a good note there is very little vibration felt through the neck however when I play one of the "dead" notes I can feel the neck vibrate a lot more. From what I understand it is the natural harmonic resonance of the neck (all materials have it to some degree) cancelling out that note quicker than other notes.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The sustaining part of the note will vibrate less. But if it's a really bad dead spot the ATTACK of the note will actually be felt MORE in my experience. It kinda feels like all the energy is instantly absorbed in a very short THUD and then... nothing. That's why I described a really bad dead spot as "a kick in the gut" in a previous post. On a hollow instrument this would obviously behave differently and I'm guessing that's where we may get into "wolf tone" territory?

 

[Martin Beer]

Funny thing: I tend to prefer the overall sound and playability of basses that have the 'classic' dead spot at or around C on the G string. Go figure. Doesn't really bother me much.

I guess it makes sense that if you change the way the neck vibrates enough to lose the dead spots entirely, you might alter some other characteristics that affect the sound. I too view them as part and parcel of the character of particular basses - it can be a hassle if it falls dead-on a particular note, but if it's between two notes it's less of an issue, and you can often shift them enough with tweaks to headstock mass.
If I want to play that D note with longer sustain I'll just play it at the 12th fret on the D string instead.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I think I've gotten my answer, thanks everyone.

Like others have already pointed out this is probably more about how different people perceive dead spots than about the actual existence of dead spots.

Some people take the scientific/theoretical approach: Dead spots vs no dead spots. Nothing between. In this scenario all basses WILL have dead spots even if they're barely audible (the possible exception being solid non-wooden necks without truss rods but someone will have to show me the physics behind it before I believe it 100%).

Others take a more practical approach: Unacceptable dead spots vs manageable dead spot. With this scenario some basses will have dead spots and others won't. If the bass works fine in real life situations even though it may have a minor dead spot = No dead spot!

And then there's the people who simply don't hear dead spots at all. Maybe their bass(es) only have minor dead spots or maybe they don't know what to listen for.

My own approach to dead spots is probably a combination of the theoretical approach (when discussing it) and the practical approach (in real life situations).

But the replies in this thread has shown me that there's definitely some confusion about what dead spots really are. Some people clearly think it has to do with neck adjustment or bad frets. Some people think it can be fixed using compression. To be fair, a MINOR dead spot can benefit from compression but dead spots aren't just about dynamics, there's a huge change in frequency content and timbre as well. And a truly bad dead spot can NOT be fixed using compression. Never!

I think I'm probably extra sensitive to dead spots because:

1) Nearly half of my basses are P-basses and they're also the first basses I reach for when I visit a music store. P-basses are THE worst basses for dead spots in my experience, even if they've got graphite rods.

2) I'm more of an engineer than a bass player these days so I actually have to mix the stuff you guys record with your dead spots, lol.

3) The bass in the clip I posted actually made me look like a fool on a couple of VERY important gigs for me around 20 years ago. It had sounded a bit iffy on rehearsals but nothing that suggested it would be useless. It turned out the high D was virtually NON-EXISTENT through a PA system. My point is, even if a dead spot may sound like a minor issue soloed it can still be a huge problem in real life situations. Dead spots are actually the first thing I check for when buying a new bass.

Finally I would like to stress that unless the dead spot is a really bad one I do not consider dead spots a huge issue. Some posters seemed to misunderstand my agenda here. I did not mean to imply that all basses suck, that would be insane! I was merely confused by the large number of NBD posts that contained the words "no dead spots" when in my experience that could simply not be the case when using MY definition of a dead spot. It seems like we simply define "dead spot" differently.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

All of the 'Fender style' basses I've owned have one at or near C on the G string. It's just a fact of life. I had a Modulus that didn't have any that I could detect. Also one Pedulla fiver. Still have that one. Oh, and a Westone 'Rail.' None there either. Funny thing: I tend to prefer the overall sound and playability of basses that have the 'classic' dead spot at or around C on the G string. Go figure. Doesn't really bother me much.

That's actually very interesting! I'm a huge fan of P-basses. They just feel so right to me, even unplugged. Could this be part of the puzzle? I'm guessing probably not to be honest but still an interesting thought!

 

[Volker Kirstein]

Geez. Wowsers! I'd like to know what they put in the hamburgs in Germany.

Das ist nur ein Hamburg in Deutschland, und da leben Hamburger.

There is only one Hamburg in Germany, and Hamburgers live there.

The beef patty between buns food is simply called a Burger, and is made from meat, or meat substitutes. Although the Amerikan term Hamburger is not uncommon.

 

[Sparuto]

To all those who "have no basses with dead spots", I give this advice:

1) Don't ask anyone to show you where they are - once you know they are there, your life will be a little less idyllic. This is one case where ignorance is definitely bliss.

Every bass ever made (this includes basses with carbon fiber or aluminum necks) has areas of reduced sustain. Some of these areas are more dead than others. To many people this doesn't matter. I play church music - we do a lot of sustained stuff in and between tunes - try to underscore (play a continuous "pad" of sound) someone talking for a few minutes, and you'll get real familiar with where the sustain is and isn't on a bass.

Wow I could not agree more. I’ve always wondered if I am the only one with this ‘problem’. I’ve heard anyone complain about dead notes. The dead notes are a problem particularly when it comes to worship songs. I usually solve my dead note on the C by clipping my tuner onto the bass headstock, which completely moves the dead note off of the neck.

 

[Bass Viking]

Finally I would like to stress that unless the dead spot is a really bad one I do not consider dead spots a huge issue. Some posters seemed to misunderstand my agenda here. I did not mean to imply that all basses suck, that would be insane! I was merely confused by the large number of NBD posts that contained the words "no dead spots" when in my experience that could simply not be the case when using MY definition of a dead spot. It seems like we simply define "dead spot" differently.

I absolutely understand what you were getting at. I pretty much expect most basses to have a dead spot, it’s just a matter of degree. Is it really noticeable, can I live with it, etc.

I do have one bass that doesn’t have dead spots in the usual area of the G string. It’s an NS Design, a headless bass with a graphite core in the neck.

 

[Jim Nazium]

Here is an isolated track of the late great James Jamerson with audible dead spots at 0:31, 0:59 and 2:19.

What a bummer. That might have been a hit song otherwise.

 

[GretschWretch]

Das ist nur ein Hamburg in Deutschland, und da leben Hamburger.

There is only one Hamburg in Germany, and Hamburgers live there.

The beef patty between buns food is simply called a Burger, and is made from meat, or meat substitutes. Although the Amerikan term Hamburger is not uncommon.

Ya got me. Good show!

 

[Chuck M]

Most basses do have a detectable "dead" spot on the neck. My G. Gould basses do not have "dead" spots. They are the most even playing basses I have ever owned and I have owned a lot of basses including Fender, Ken Smith, Roscoe, Lull, Alembic, Modulus, Yamaha, Ibanez......well, you get the picture.

 

[pappabass]

Just spend more money for a bass!!

 

[bbh]

I would never keep a bass that has dead spots. It’s an indication that something is wrong somewhere in the build or finish work.

 

[BAG]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The sustaining part of the note will vibrate less. But if it's a really bad dead spot the ATTACK of the note will actually be felt MORE in my experience. It kinda feels like all the energy is instantly absorbed in a very short THUD and then... nothing

Yep, that's exactly it. Plucking the "dead" note you feel the attack of the note through the neck more and then it's gone. The natural resonance of the neck absorbs or cancels the string energy of that note. A good note doesn't interact with the neck as much and is allowed to continue vibrating.