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No Fog allowed in some small venues? (Light show)

C

c2thej2theizzo

Mar 14, 2011
219
2
Milwaukee, WI
www.milwaukeejam.com
#1
I have run into a couple of situations where there is no haze/fog allowed due to the local fire inspectors insisting they need smoke alarms in these venues. I know for a fact that there are other alternative types of detectors, Carbon monoxide, Heat etc... that they use in other places like Hockey and basketball arenas when they set off fireworks and have big rock shows with haze etc..., also there are plenty of basements and factory and other work areas that cant have smoke detectors and have water systems or extra fire extinguishers.

This prevents me from getting back into quite a few good downtown venues, or getting install jobs because light shows are less effective without haze.

Any other light guys or small live venue or disco club owners have any experience getting around this issue (I realize rules differ from city to city).
 
#3
we recently had a regional hip-hop act perform at my church- the guy brought all his own PA and lights. A ton of gear. his fog machine was certainly oversized for our sanctuary and when he MERELY TESTED his smoke machine, the entire 2 story building filled up with artificial smoke. it knocked the elevator offline and set off the fire alarms. the fire dept. came and had to verify the place was ok and it took 45 minutes before the elevator would work again.
 
#10
lowfreq33 said:
A hazer shouldn't set off a smoke alarm. A fog machine could.
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Marko5657 said:
Well, since the other bands can’t do it either, at least the playing field is even.
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scatbass said:
At venues that don't allow fog - we don't bring moving lights. We just work with a stripped down light show. Their club/bar, their rules. *shrug*

So far hasn't caused any issues as far as rebooking.
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If I read the OP's post correctly, he runs the light shows for the bands, and the lack of fog makes him less likely to get booked by those bands. I could be interpreting it wrong, but I don't think this is a case of someone refusing to play without their fog, but rather a guy who can't get business because of the rule.
 
#11
scatbass said:
At venues that don't allow fog - we don't bring moving lights. We just work with a stripped down light show. Their club/bar, their rules. *shrug*

So far hasn't caused any issues as far as rebooking.
Click to expand...

Thats my bands philosophy too. We've switched from a fog machine to a hazer but most venues cant tell the difference and/or don't care. Either you're allowed to simulate smoke or you're not and the tool you're using doesn't weigh into the decision.

Interesting thing is that around here anyway, smoke/fog as part of the show is considered kind of passe by many so some bands don't even bother with it anymore. It does really up the impact of lights though, which is a big deal with our BL so we still roll with the hazer whenever we're allowed.
 
#12
I just picked up a new-in-box fog machine off of CL for next to nothing. The DJ I got it from does mostly events in hotels. He said none of those kinds of venues allow it. I think that most of the dive bars around Pittsburgh will allow it, since many still have smokers in them anyway.
 
#14
pmchenry said:
If I read the OP's post correctly, he runs the light shows for the bands, and the lack of fog makes him less likely to get booked by those bands. I could be interpreting it wrong, but I don't think this is a case of someone refusing to play without their fog, but rather a guy who can't get business because of the rule.
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Yes, I think you’re right.

kevingr said:
I would be surprised if a lack of fog machine is stopping you from getting rebookings.
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Good point. Actually I haven’t read/heard anyone else bring up the OP’s concern. In any case, new laws/regulations have made almost all working peoples’ lives a bit harder, me included.

I’m just hoping to get five more years in so I can retire from my day job before powers that be screw me out of that.

In any case, sympathy and best wishes to the OP.
 
#15
No , Nobody has actually had any relative advice re: fire systems, thx for the attention though everybody.

Actually the concern is more for doing installs than getting random lighting bookings.

A few club owners I'm tight with may have passed because of the fact that they must have smoke detectors inside and installing movers and most importantly lasers, and other effect lights are really useless without fog. My question is regarding replacing/revamping smoke detectors with other types of detectors like heat detectors or other types of fire prevention devices so that I can present this solution to club owners and then sell them on an install.

That being said I have had a few bands upset because they hired us based on our pictures and videos of RGB lasers etc...and we get to the venue and cant use smoke. therefore half our effects lights are pointless. and the bands/DJs wants some of their money back - I make sure they check with the venue upfront now.
 
#16
I'm the house lighting dude for a club here in NYC. I also get calls from bands to work in other clubs to operate the in-house systems. Venues here are okay with fog so long as the alarms don't get tripped...very few venues, like Brooklyn Bowl (haven't run lighting there, for the record) forbid fog outright. Others, like BB Kings (where I have) allow fog so long as the building and production managers are made aware, via email or fax, FIRST.

Some tips:

1) A little fog goes a long way. Part of the reason why alarms get tripped is because LDs start thinking every show has to be like a Whitesnake video set in a haunted house filmed by Dario Argento. :rollno: A little puff at critical spots is often all you need to make the lights visible.

2) Along that note - I always dilute fog/haze fluid at about a 50/50 mix with DISTILLED (note the caps) water. Placing a small fan in front of the fogger/hazer also helps to spread and thin the mist itself.

3) I do whatever I can to direct fog/haze AWAY from the alarms in the first place. At Canal Room here in NYC - my main gig - we had a problem, for years, with fog setting off the alarms. Management was resigned to just banning it outright to avoid the fines (and turning the alarms off was obviously never a serious consideration, for legal/public safety reasons). Then bands started to complain about the look of their shows.

A few tests was all it took to solve the problem. You see, the Canal Room stage is against a far wall, opposite from where the main air ducts (and their detectors) are located. On both sides of the stage are loading/Fire Exit doors. We found that by using small fans to aim the fog towards the stage, we avoided triggering the alarms. The aformentioned exit doors are, of course, not hermetically sealed, so some of the fog was able to simply go outdoors through the "seams" of the doors. Along with the other tips I mentioned above, we can now run fog/haze without a problem. The shows look better as a result, and photographers, fans, and management notice the difference.
 
#20
a real haze machine can make a very thin film/haze ... that's all is needed to " see " the lights ... many many venues use haze in very large public places that are full of smoke detectors ...

keep it very lightly used and keep it on stage , away from smoke detectors ...

if there are smoke detectors ' on stage ' ... get over it , and find some other objects to light up, rather than empty space ...

if "lights " are what you've chosen to do for a living , then it's part of your chosen job to 'figure it out ' ... versus wasting time wondering about things you can't change .. !
 

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