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No Pay Benefits Shows
- Thread starter bluewine
- Start date
BassScum said:
At my age and from my personal experience, the shows where you're really getting exposure that is of any value is far and few in between.
I did one last year and it was cool.I think it was for our Les Paul Museum:
Great Bands
Local
Nice backline, sound & lighting was top notch
Food for the bands, they were even giving some 25.00 gift certificates to band members. The organizers must have been musicians.
And that one sounds pretty cool and I would support that. One we are doing for free is for the a part of our city that is our soul, the music/arts district which supports all local and original music. The other is thru a local magazine that covers the music scene and supports us in another citys music/arts district. Both have great stages, allot of people and all of the local bands flock to them and play for free to support those who give back to us.. the local musicians.
As I said it depends on the benefit. But to be told, not asked to do it and a 2 hour one way drive..No!
Mod edit: Agreed 
But back on topic, I tend to agree that playing these things once in a while, as long as it is a cause the whole band is in on, is not a bad thing. I've been playing regularly in cover bands for 20+ years and have done my share of free showcases, benefits, etc., and NEVER in that time have had a venue owner try to low ball me because I did so. In the end club/bar owners fall into two categories: those who already have packed clubs and need a great band to entertain those patrons already present OR those whose clubs rely on the band bringing a following. Please tell me how playing free gigs once in a while (a) does nothing to improve yourselves as a band (thus providing leverage for the first type of club owner) or (b) does nothing to help gain a following (thus providing leverage for the second type of club owner). Sure I realize a band isn't going to become killer players and attract a Greatful Dead-like following just by playing a few freebies every year, but it certainly can't hurt. I think you guys are WAY too paranoid about this whole "getting a rep" thing. If you shred, groove, and wail, and bring a huge crowd into a bar, you are going to be able to command the going price at that bar. Period. Playing a bunch of freebies at that point doesn't mean a thing.
In fact, I'm a little irritated when I read some posts that dis musicians for playing free gigs on the grounds that it affects other musicians. Ever since I went from novice to pro I've been secure enough in my own and band's playing to know I/we are going to get good gigs. I don't think I have to talked out of playing freebies just to make sure there are paying gigs some punk-a$$ sucky garage band. Bottom line, if you really did get low-balled because of your involvement in showcases or other freebies, I'd suggest it was your performance that is resulting in your problems, not the freebie gigs.
But back on topic, I tend to agree that playing these things once in a while, as long as it is a cause the whole band is in on, is not a bad thing. I've been playing regularly in cover bands for 20+ years and have done my share of free showcases, benefits, etc., and NEVER in that time have had a venue owner try to low ball me because I did so. In the end club/bar owners fall into two categories: those who already have packed clubs and need a great band to entertain those patrons already present OR those whose clubs rely on the band bringing a following. Please tell me how playing free gigs once in a while (a) does nothing to improve yourselves as a band (thus providing leverage for the first type of club owner) or (b) does nothing to help gain a following (thus providing leverage for the second type of club owner). Sure I realize a band isn't going to become killer players and attract a Greatful Dead-like following just by playing a few freebies every year, but it certainly can't hurt. I think you guys are WAY too paranoid about this whole "getting a rep" thing. If you shred, groove, and wail, and bring a huge crowd into a bar, you are going to be able to command the going price at that bar. Period. Playing a bunch of freebies at that point doesn't mean a thing.
In fact, I'm a little irritated when I read some posts that dis musicians for playing free gigs on the grounds that it affects other musicians. Ever since I went from novice to pro I've been secure enough in my own and band's playing to know I/we are going to get good gigs. I don't think I have to talked out of playing freebies just to make sure there are paying gigs some punk-a$$ sucky garage band. Bottom line, if you really did get low-balled because of your involvement in showcases or other freebies, I'd suggest it was your performance that is resulting in your problems, not the freebie gigs.
If it's for a cause I'm passionate about, I'll do it for free, but don't tell me I can't bring in my own food or drink if you ain't payin me.
And don't get sucked in by the lure of "exposure." You want exposure? Go out and do some advertising!
And don't get sucked in by the lure of "exposure." You want exposure? Go out and do some advertising!
I don't feel that it really affects me at this point in my career, but any band or musician's willingness to play for free (and I'm thinking mostly of NON-benefits here) or for very low pay certainly affects how much other musicians of the same calibre in the same region are going to be paid. I firmly believe that musicians need to work together, and part of that is not to be the person willing to undercut everyone else.
Possibly. But for free-market thinkers, the solution is easy: the other musicians are free to improve thier calibre, and thus improve thier pay. If they neither have the work ethic or the ability to do so, that is hardly my fault. I'll play for free whenever I please.
You seem to be going down a road that I guess I just don't believe in; the utopia being all musicians in an area all agreeing to not work for any less than X amount. But that's just as wrong as all bars in area agreeing to only pay up to a maximum price for musicians. Wage-fixing can work both ways, and again, my opinion only, is wrong either way.
gnjpowell
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- Nov 12, 2010
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Your product is worth only what you charge. Like the song says: "You only earn what they pay you". The Who
Possibly; but only for that one transaction. I don't believe it affects other transactions.
What I am debating here is the idea that producing a "worthless product" (your contention, not mine) for a gig or two affects either yourself or other musicians in the future. But I have driven away from too many freebie gigs and on to a high paying gig to buy into that idea.
onosson said:
And anyone who doesn't believe this post needs to come visit Nashville sometime and try to get a paying gig with original music.
Looks to me like you already listed all the perils in your post. I would not do it.
No, that's not my thinking at all. There doesn't need to be any verbal agreement or otherwise, or wage-fixing, or anything like that. People just need to look at the bigger picture and think about how their actions impact others. I don't take gigs below a certain dollar amount for two reasons: I value my own time to be worth a certain amount, and it sets a bad precedent for others who do what I do.
I'm usually skeptical of extremes, and this topic is no different. It's asinine to think that all bands should agree to play for no less than X amount of dollars. Market factors are going to come into play. Some styles of music are more marketable than others. Covers will generally draw more than all-originals, at least on the local level. Established bands will generally be bigger draws than bands with two gigs under their belts. All of this is going to affect the amount of money an act can charge. The all-original noise rock band just isn't going to be able to command the same price as a Top 40 cover band, which may not be able to command the same price as the excellent Kiss tribute band.
People try and apply union principles to this type of thing, but they fail to realize that unions are broken up into bargaining units so the interests and realities of certain types of workers match up. Saying all bands shouldn't play for less than X is like having machinists and sales staff in the same bargaining unit with the same collective bargaining agreement. It ain't gonna work because their realities are different. The realities of a Top 40 cover band and an all-original hardcore band are different.
On the other hand, too many musicians willing to slit their throats and be taken advantage by garbage deals like pay-to-play schemes and door agreements with club owners who have no problem skimming hurts everybody, particuarly those who have put in the time, money, and talent to deliver quality music. Pay-to-play exists because musicians allow it to exist. And frankly, pay-to-play and other schemes created soley to benefit scummy promoters and venue owners* at the cost of bands is a disgrace.
*Not all promoters and venue owners are scummy, just the ones who do BS deals like the ones I'm talking about.
I must be missing something but this whole argument of not doing charity gigs because it somehow devalues you and potentially lowers your earning ability for other gigs strikes me as somewhat bizarre.
There is an expectation that you're going to receive less or play for free at a charity gig. The expectations for a regular paying gig are different. It's a apples and oranges comparison.
Lawyers quite often do pro bono work. I don't know any lawyers that worry about lowering their hourly rate because they sometimes work for free.
There is an expectation that you're going to receive less or play for free at a charity gig. The expectations for a regular paying gig are different. It's a apples and oranges comparison.
Lawyers quite often do pro bono work. I don't know any lawyers that worry about lowering their hourly rate because they sometimes work for free.
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