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Nobody cares about your tone....

#241
An honest couple of questions, hopefully some pro's can answer:

A) in a record, the final mix/bass tone, how much is dictated by the producer-engineer etc. Do they do what you want? You can see many players that play bass " A" but record with bass "B" because somebody suggested it.

B) In a live situation ( PA support) where you can use your gear, how much of your tone is projected to the audience? I have read interview s of big cats where they said that they care about the sound on stage and let the soundman to do whatever they want.

To me sound matters but that is because I play for my own entertainment, i dont have producers telling me what to do neither I play in large venues, I only play in my church with PA support and where I dont know what the guy in the soundboard is going to do.
 
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#243
I go to the “Blue Note” in NY regularly, and I’ve seen many great acts.

One of my favorites is Chris Botti and he usually has different musicians with him depending on what albums/s he’s playing from.

I pay attention to the bassist & his tone for the obvious reasons…………….I play bass, and I’m a bass freak.

Most of the other people in the audience however are not musicians, don’t have a musician’s ear, and probably couldn’t describe or explain what tone is.

The point I’m trying to make is that I think it’s fair to say that most concert goers, and music lovers that attend live musical events have absolutely no clue what we all fuss over, and couldn’t hear the difference if their lives depended on it.

You could probably use one bass set up to pull of most genres of music and nobody would be the wiser, and they’d all love your performance.

Yes, by all means sweat anything that’s important to you because that’s your prerogative & right.

No, most people absolutely don’t care, and couldn’t tell the difference between your tone or the person who puts nothing into his or her tone.
 
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#250
Well OP, you are absolutely correct. And a LOT of the players and pros who swear they can hear differences in tone, mids, etc, are basically full of crap. In a superbly quiet, absolutely no interference setting, you might be able to hear subtle differences. But by and large, ummmm NO! If you are playing mostly bar and wedding gigs, if they hear bass and its not too farty, you are done. Even if you are playing jazz, as most guys have the "dial in Jaco or Marcus" setting, and go with that.

I have been told numerous times, by bass players famous and not so, that they love my tone. Well, I have used at those gigs my Hartke LH500, my Vivid VT2180, my Vivid VB500, an old Peavey Basic 60 and a Fender twin guitar amp. I sound like me all the time. I set every single amp I have flat, and do minimal eq with my basses. It is all in my hands. So while your cable and amp are very important to your "Tone", spending oodles for some miniscule, and mostly inaudible change is laughable.

Most players don't even have their own "tone". Most jazz guys I know sound like Jaco or Marcus. Most new age guys sound like Manring. Rock? Most guys today are trying to emulate either Geezer, McCartney, Geddy or the like. I, fortunately, sound like me.

Most also mistake not being able to cut through the mix with lack of mids or mid control, when in fact it is too much bass and not enough treb. If you are not cutting through right now, take your bass control and put it at 5 o'clock, and your treble control at 7 o'clock. Problem solved, and you will swear you hear more mids.

And lastly, you should only do eq, and I say minimal eq in one place. You either set your bass for full output and eq at the amp, or set your amp flat and do eq at your bass. When you see guys with an active bass, a preamp pedal, a preamp in the rack and then an amp, all with variable eq, and they don't have any of them set flat, then you are just eqing toooooooo much.

As for recording, we always record with max setting on the basses. Usually you only record or mostly record passive basses or in passive mode. A good or great sound board will allow you to cut bass and treb and just leave some mids, and this is how you get certain tone on records. Its less the bass, more the board.

Have I pissed off enough of you yet? Oh, and for the record, on most amps knobs all at 12 is NOT flat. For example, on the Hartke LH series, the amps are based on a Fender Tone stack, so "flat" is bass at 1, mid at 10, and treble at around 2. Got it? You need to check with your amp manufacturer to find out exactly what the proper setting for flat is.

So, to sum, if you are using an amp, pre amp and bass all with eq, and setting them all at different settings, you are doing eq all wrong, and you will NEVER find "your tone."

Lesson over. Go back to whateve you were doing.
 
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#252
It's like gourmet food or a good burger, some like one, some like the other, lots like both, and all most everybody cares about is a full belly from something that tastes good. So goes the world of taste... and there is no accounting for taste, including bass tone. Most people just want to enjoy the music and have fun.
 
#254
Well somebody cares. Yesterday evening Betty Lavette did a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] in a Dutch daily live talkshow. On live television she stopped the song 4 times because: (wait for it) ... She wanted the bass louder in the mix. (and the soundguy aparently just could not understand it was the bass she wanted louder and not her own voice)

Can we give her a honorary membership?
 
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#255
I think bass tone is hugely important, even to most people who can't tell you the difference. They feel the music, in any genre, and aren't paying attention to the guitarist's overdrive tone, or the drummer's new snare drum, or the bass player's 12 pedals. But they feel if they like it or not, if they want to move to it or not, and if it makes them feel something at all. It's a very subconscious thing. They also may not be able to tell you if a guitar is out of tune, or the PA sucks, but they might think "this band isn't that good" and not know why.

I believe a great bass tone can get people dancing, whereas a crappy tone would not, even if the notes played are the same. So to me, it still matters to the non-musicians in the audience.

And secondly, but just as important - it matters to us as players. When you're really feeling your tone, you can be inspired by it, and play better. That's true for me, and imagine for others as well.

Just my thoughts.
 
#256
I, and I'm certain I'm not alone, am trying to give the listener the very best that I have. That would include technique as well as tone. As with all things related to serving the public, when it's all good they don't notice on the conscious level. But when it isn't good they can tell that something is missing.

But even if they never did, I would be remiss if I didn't give everything the very best that I can, within the limitations of my abilities, every time.
 
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#257
True story: a few years ago I was using a rack rig featuring my Ampeg SVP Pro. I was not getting FOH support, so my rig was filling the room. Another bassist introduced himself and said "hey, your tone's good onstage but isn't really working out in the audience, let me fix it for you". Yeah, that was an odd request, but I let him. He went on a number of forays back into the audience, and then back up on stage to tweak the graphic EQ on my SVP-Pro. After a couple of songs he smiled and said "there, that's a lot better!"

I thanked him... even though I have never liked the graphic EQ on the SVP-Pro, and it was (still!) switched off. I don't consider the guy an idiot because I have made similar mistakes, tweaking EQ and thinking I'd made a difference only to realize that the device was bypassed. It does go to show that many of us obsess way too much about tone.

Point number two: I allowed the dude to mess with my EQ (I assumed he would switch the graphic on) because tonal nuances don't matter to me. My only concern was that he didn't make me too loud or too quiet (and he left my volume as is). He as a bassist cared about my tone, and I do too (to a certain extent), but I knew that nobody else would care whether my tone was snappy, punchy, growly, whatever.
 
#259
Tone, to me, is like "knowing" that I look good when I put on a freshly pressed blue suit, killer bow-tie (not too perfectly tied!), have a good 3-4 day shadow going on, polished tan shoes and a good hair day to boot. May not mean much to others but I feel like a bad-ass when I walk into the room. That translates into confidence and that is exactly what my bass tone feels like to me.
 

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