• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Noob Help with Recording Cover Band

philter25

philter25

Mar 26, 2010
297
3
Germantown, MD
#1
Hey guys,

So my cover band wants to make a demo and record a few live shows for videos to make a better media package. Ive been doing our sound and I have a pretty good grasp on levels and EQ, so Im interested in getting some recording gear.

We currently have a mackie 1604 VLZ pro board, so I can mic everything into the board. My questions is whats the best way to get the signals from the board to a computer?

I have a desktop and a laptop, both are dual core Windows7 machines with the stock soundcards.

I was originally thinking we can do a few live takes as we are pretty good with timing and sharp and then vocals can record over top of the live takes.

We are vocals, guitar, bass, keys, and drums.

I have enough outputs on the mixers with subgroups to have 12 direct 1/4 inch outputs. Channels 1-8 have direct outputs so vocals, guitar, bass, and keys can be covered there. Then I can run 5 mics and mic up drums and balance them and send them to a subgroup to go out another 1/4 output.

Ive done some reading and I see people with 1 or 2 track interfaces where they record 1 or 2 tracks at a time. Ive seen some people mix the whole thing on their mixer and then use an output on their mixer to the mic input on their soundcard via a RCA to 3.5 adapter. For my setup, Id like to be able to record 6 tracks at once and then re-record a track if someone screws up or if vocals want to re-record vocals.

So what should I use to get that to my computer and what computer program should I use? I can throw a decent amount of cash into this, but I dont need to drop 2 grand on a pro recording studio.

I was looking at the M-Audio fast track with Pro Tools SE package from MF.

M-Audio Fast Track Ultra USB Audio Interface with Pro Tools SE : Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Would that allow me to record 6 tracks at once and edit them?
 
#2
A lot of that depends on the software you use, not the interface.

For the interface, that one will work fine if you don't mind using 1/4" for some of the inputs, as it only has 4 XLR inputs. Personally, I'd look for something that is FireWire over USB, it'll have less latency which is annoying.

For the software, pretty much anything will allow you to record 6 tracks at once. Your computer may only be able to handle 2 tracks though. It's something that you'll need to find out through trial and error. You should be able to edit everything you lay down as well.

A "pro" recording studio would cost WAY more than $2K.
 
#3
philter25 said:
Would that allow me to record 6 tracks at once and edit them?
Click to expand...

What computer are you planning on sending it to? CPU, number of cores, RAM, and OS?

Edit: never mind. I should try reading all the details. I think you will be just fine. I can mix 42 tracks simultaneously with Reaper on a 4-core Win7 machine with 8 GB of Ram, and I'm not even coming close to using all that resource. I previously did this on a dual core with 4 GB and it started to get draggy around 12-15 tracks.

You should use Firewire and for what you're about to drop on that m-audio, you could get a Presonus FP-10 and have 8 channels xlr input. I have used 2 different Presonus units and they are really nice.
 
#4
I see Presonus has the firestudio for 499 and its bundled with their Studio One Artist software:
PreSonus FireStudio Project Recording Interface: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

And then they have the "mobile" one for $299:
Invalid Link Removed

If I am using my mixer and using the balanced 1/4 line outs for each channel on my mixer, then would the "mobile" do the trick and allow me to record 6 channels at once?

Also, how is their bundled Studio One Artist software? I dont need something with all the bells and whistles and additional instrument add-ons. I probably just need EQ, a little compression, and the ability to level tracks for a good demo, right?

And both computers are dual cores, 4 GB ram, Win7 machines. And I have MAudio AV40 Studiophile monitors.
 
#6
^ Well for live shows, depending on the venue, we have 4 vocal mics, acoustic guitar, bass, and keys. We usually dont mic drums. And for smaller venues we dont mic bass or guitar.

However, the 4 vocal mics are because we have a male and female lead singer who sing depending on the song, guitarist does backup vocals, and we have an MC for some hip hop songs.

But for recording, it would be 1 vocal and then we would record backing vocals on a seperate take.

We can mic drums with 4-5 mics and then balance the levels and subgroup it with 1 fader which goes to a 1/4 inch output.

Therefore, for "live" recording of demos, we just need inputs for vocals, bass, guitar, and drums and depending on the song, keys and acoustic guitar. So at the most, we are looking at 6 tracks. However, vocals would probably be recorded seperately overtop of the instruments on seperate takes.

Im also considering the Zoom H4N, which is a different category and the clips ive heard have been pretty good for live recording, especially if you can get 2 channels from the mix into their line inputs to go with the room condenser mics.

Options, options!
 
#7
Pay someone to do it for you. For reals.

If you want decent results, you are gonna need someone with SOME experience, you have none. You can prolly find someone to do it fairly inexpensively, few hundred dollars and you are golden. You'll spend more on gear.

Now, if you are looking at this is an excuse to buy gear and learn stuff, have at it. But it will almost guarenteed sound amateurish.

This is from somone who started recording 10 years ago and is just really getting the hang of it now. If you have any specific questions, pm me.
 
#8
agreatheight said:
Pay someone to do it for you. For reals.

If you want decent results, you are gonna need someone with SOME experience, you have none. You can prolly find someone to do it fairly inexpensively, few hundred dollars and you are golden. You'll spend more on gear.

Now, if you are looking at this is an excuse to buy gear and learn stuff, have at it. But it will almost guarenteed sound amateurish.

This is from somone who started recording 10 years ago and is just really getting the hang of it now. If you have any specific questions, pm me.
Click to expand...

+1

Because this is something you want to be part of a demo package to further the band's gigs, that you will learn a lot from doing it is secondary to the fact that it probably won't come out sounding too impressive compared to other demos clubs get. It will amaze you how great it does sound, and it will sound better every time you do it, but I think it's expecting too much that your first project won't sound like your first project. You need someone who has done it a hundred times already. You don't have to go to a studio, you could hire an engineer who has a small mobile rig to come to your rehearsal space. And he/she'll be able to give it the mix it deserves right out of the gate.

The other reason is because *that's* how you'll best begin to learn to make good recordings, by being in the room while someone else is doing it. They'll help show you why xx isn't really necessary but zz is.

If you had said everything except for the part about it being your band's demo I would have said dive in, here are some pointers. But it sounds like it would short shrift what you want it for.
 
#9
Well a few things:

- We are already pretty established in our area. We book about 3-4 gigs per month and have played some good venues here.

- We have an older demo which we payed for studio time to use. We've used it when we need to, but most gigs lately have been word of mouth.

- The older demo is older songs which arent as current. Since we are a cover band, we'd like to be able to record and get youtube videos up and running with more current songs.

- Another thing Id like to do is get more involved and learn more about making better quality live videos. We've put up a few youtube videos taken on my wifes iPhone or my digital camera. They are decent, but I know with a little better gear, I can make them better.

- Whenever we add a new song to the setlist or start playing a new song, Id like the know-how to get a good live recording of it and overlay it to some live video to keep a better youtube collection.

Here's one of the youtube live videos we did:
"The Joker" - Steve Miller Band cover by Over The Line - YouTube

Thats my baseline, so Id like to get some better gear to upgrade the iPhone into a basic audio and video editor.

- As for cost, I dont mind spending a few hundred bucks on gear if its something Im going to be using on a monthly basis to get some good live recordings to update our media kit.
 
#11
Seen that you already have a pretty good and recording friendly mixer, I would go the way you'd planned. Get the presonus firestudio Mobile (The Firestudio Project is really good too, but you don't need the mic pres. That way you save 200 dollars that you can put towards a zoom HD video recorder.)

I would connect everything like this:
Channel 1 & 2 Main Vocals. direct out to the interface. Input 1 & 2
channels 3, 4 and 5 E- Guitar, Acoustic Guitar, Bass. Direct out to interface. Input 3, 4 & 5
channels 6, 7, 8, 9 Drum mics. Bus 1 and 2 to the interface. Input 6 & 7
channel 10, 11, 12 backing vocals bus 3 to interface. Input 8
channel 13, 14 Keys. Keys can be connected via midi and use VSTi later on
As for the people saying get someone to do it. You could pay someone and have it done, but if the band doesn't have a great night or the venue doesn't give you a good vibe; you will have a pretty good recording, of a not so good performance and you would have spent at least 200 to 300 dollars. However if you buy the interface you can record every performance and not only be able to mix a demo from it, but you'll also have a good idea of what the band sounded like.

Edit: I miscounted the interface inputs. add midi option for keys
 
#12
How about which software to use?

I'd be looking to do the following:

- Take 8 live recording tracks and just EQ and add compression and balance the levels and merge them into an mp3 if we needed to get a quick demo.

- Take the mp3 from live recording tracks and overlay video clips or pictures on top of it to make a little video which can be uploaded to youtube.

- Edit the audio on recorded videos. Sometimes we get pretty decent audio recordings depending on venue and where people stand. Sometimes the audio on the video just needs a little eq and some small touches and its youtube ready for live performances.

- If we are recording video from a venue which I am recording the sound live, being able to strip the audio from the video camera and put the edited audio on top of the video to make a youtube clip.

I see that the Zoom and the presonue stuff come with their own software.

The Zoom Q3Hd comes with HandyShare editing software.

The Zoom H4N comes with Cubase LE.

And the Presonus Firestudio Mobile comes with Studio One Artist.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these 3 programs and would be able to tell me the abilities of these programs and if they would suit my needs?

We are a cover band, so I wont be doing any composing or adding any add-in instruments. Pretty much looking to clean up what we play.

Ive learned in the past to buy once, cry once, so I rather research and pick whatever is going to best match what I am looking to do. I appreciate the help guys, thanks.
 
#14
Just another viewpoint:

IMO, once you start recording digitally, you are going to want to make things sound better and better. It won't be long and you'll wish that you had seperate tracks for the drums so you can gate them, and have each drum on it's own track in your DAW. I'd recommend getting the bigger firepod. With the pre's there, plus your mixer, you could record nearly everything onto it's own channel without having to "sub-mix" before going to tape. That's my .02c.
 
#15
^ Good point. I'm thinking about getting a Mackie 1620i Onyx mixer to replace our 1604. Firewire interface built right in so I wouldnt need to bring extra gear if we wanted to record live. Just connect the firewire to my laptop.

Theres just so many options......
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back