Noob question about gear

[MatF]

Hi. New to the forum. New to bass actually. I’ve been a guitar player for years and I’m only starting to experiment with the bass.

In an age of in-house miking etc. this question is maybe a bit moot, but out of curiosity let’s say you’re playing in a loud garage band, which plays modern hard rock and metal, and your guitar player is playing through a 50watt (tubes) half stack.

What bass amp/cab combination would you use to compete with that, as well as a loud drummer, in terms of wattage for the amp (tube or solid state), and number/size of speakers?

My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?

 

[AlexanderB]

Hi. New to the forum. New to bass actually. I’ve been a guitar player for years and I’m only starting to experiment with the bass.

In an age of in-house miking etc. this question is maybe a bit moot, but out of curiosity let’s say you’re playing in a loud garage band, which plays modern hard rock and metal, and your guitar player is playing through a 50watt (tubes) half stack.

What bass amp/cab combination would you use to compete with that, as well as a loud drummer, in terms of wattage for the amp (tube or solid state), and number/size of speakers?

My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?

Welcome here. A cost efficeint way to get a loud and flexible bass rig is to buy a used, quality 410 cab. If you go for an 8 ohm cab, you can easily add a second cab later, with almost any bass amp.
For amplification, a 410 plus AT LEAST 300 W of amplification works for rock. Some commercial cabs benefit from a bigger amp, but few 410 are safe once you exceed 500-600W, and really use all of them.
Second hand PA power amp is good and cheap, with a pedal preamp. Otherwise, there are slew of decent priced 500W bass amps, new and used.

 

[bholder]

What he said and get some good earplugs!

 

[6thplanet]

Honestly what you have should be good. Don't be afraid of the mid range knobs. More times than not, what sounds good solo, doesn't with the band. ....also, more times than not, the guitar is to loud.

 

[Gearhead17]

"My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?"

The combination of the Hartke 410 and that Trace Elliot combo is not a good one. The Hartke 410 is MUCH louder than the combo and Trace 15 is likely not adding much to the situation. The Hartke 410 and 300 watts or more is a good start here. If you want bass felt and heard, I suggest an IDENTICAL Hartke 410. Running 2 410's will cover just about any situation you could be in. It's not always about the wattage; the speaker cabinet is far more important.

 

[6thplanet]

Reason I submitted is from what I'm using. I play metal. I use a Hartke 7000 head and 4/10 Hartke hydrive cabs. At first I only used one 4/10, which got 240watts from one channel of the head. It was plenty to keep up with a loud drummer and a reasonable level of guitar (Mesa DRec - 4/12) Proper EQ goes along way.

Not arguing the 15 in the combos contribution to the effort. So possibility would be to just use the power from the Trace to the 4/10, sitting on top of it to get it up to your ears. Pure speculation obviously.

 

[Zooberwerx]

"My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?"

The combination of the Hartke 410 and that Trace Elliot combo is not a good one. The Hartke 410 is MUCH louder than the combo and Trace 15 is likely not adding much to the situation. The Hartke 410 and 300 watts or more is a good start here. If you want bass felt and heard, I suggest an IDENTICAL Hartke 410. Running 2 410's will cover just about any situation you could be in. It's not always about the wattage; the speaker cabinet is far more important.

Agreed. Not sure if the internal 15" can be disconnected nor am I able to ID that particular TE amp. I'm leaning toward running the TE > Hartke 4x10 solo and be done with it. This should create the desired ruckus. I'll be durned if I'll spend money on extra gear just because some wankers won't turn down.

Riis

 

[Verb the Noun]

IME, a double (2x12, 2x15) or quad (4x10) driver cab teamed with a decent head will get the job done in most hard rock/metal scenarios. Good idea to make sure a second cab option is still open by going with 8 ohm cabs or a head that can drop to 2ohms. A second cab will cover most outdoor/no PA support gigs.

As for the rig you are using now.. If its loud enough for rehearsal it's plenty loud for shows. If not quite loud enough? Grab a beefier head to use with the 4x10 and you should be solid. Usually cheap head or three on CL if you're ballin on a budget.

 

[jamro217]

Welcome to TB. I concur with the others here. 300 watts minimum puts you in the ballpark. Used 4-10 cabs are easy to find and are cheaper than ever since the advent of neodymium speakers. The most important thing is to learn how to EQ the rig properly to get the sound you want at maximum volume. A frowning EQ is your friend. Cut the subs and treble and focus on the lower mids. Hope this helps.

 

[MatF]

Awesome, thanks for all the helpful comments. I had my doubts about the combination of the 15” and 4x10” speakers. I like the idea of two 410 cabs instead, but for now I’ll probably stick to one.

Is speaker make/model as important as it is with guitar speakers? People love celestion vintage 30s and greenbacks for example. It can make a substantial difference in your tone. Is it the same with bass? Are there particular speakers to go for?

 

[basscooker]

I wouldn't get caught up in speakers just yet. Focus on an assembled manufactured cab.

Bass cabs don't work in the same way as guitar cabs do wrt swapping. The speaker and the box are a system that work together. You'll get yourself into the weeds with design and weighing tradeoffs and your head will start hurting over the graphs and charts and math.

A good cab with plenty of displacement and voicing you like is really what I'd suggest you put the effort into on that front.

Come back around later on for driver suggestions. Bass reproduction is a whole different animal than skinny-string.

 

[bassliner50]

Impending tinnitus is your real worry.

 

[red_rhino]

Impending tinnitus is your real worry.

+1

Take it from someone who’s living that truth. You can escalate the volume wars by going bigger and louder, but you can’t win. These days I won’t play with anyone who can’t manage their volume levels. You should be able to accomplish your goals with 300-500 watts and a single 410 @ 4 ohms or perhaps 2 1x15s cabs at most. Otherwise it’s too loud, IMO. Even then, your guitar player and drummer will likely get louder to match. Wear ear protection!

Welcome to Talkbass.

 

[Geogio]

Hi.

Hi.

An old buddy of mine is in a band ,it's pretty active and they solved their issues by hiring an electronic drummer who also plays hand percussion. Control the eq and levels to the PA and it seems to work out absolutely right. Venue owners even compliment the band on how nice they were mixed.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Disconnect the 115 and run the 410 only. Should be plenty. And wear ear plugs.

 

[sotua]

Get them to turn down, get the drummer to learn dynamics, and wear earplugs (nice ones with flat-ish frequency response, not just plain orange ones from CVS).

300W into a 4x10 should be enough if you're being sensible about band volume.

Also learn how to EQ (both the guitar and the bass) so that you're not competing for mix space.

 

[Steve Dallman]

I played in a three piece. The guitar player used a 20 watt, 1965 Ampeg Reverbrocket. I used an Ampeg PF-500, and later switched to a PF-800. His backup was a 50 watt, potentially very loud Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. He did a good job of not running the HRD any louder than his Ampeg…unless it was an outdoor gig.

Shoot for a 500 watt head. Enough power results in less frustration.

 

[BlueTalon]

My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?

I'm missing the plot here. Are you looking to improve what you have? Is it deficient? Or are you just looking for recommendations to move up when the time comes? Don't get me wrong, it's fun to spend other people's money, but if it's serving you well in jam sessions, I don't see the need to change anything just yet.

Regarding the hearing protection... Get some. And use it. I use Earpeace -- it's comfortable, inexpensive, and easy to get used to. I've been using it for about 10 years.

 

[ashtray]

Ignore the word “bass” when thinking of your amp’s eq - mids are your friend. Bass eq will sound good at low volumes, but will blow speakers at higher volumes, eat up all your wattage, get you lost in the mix and lose definition of your notes, and ultimately result in lower volumes. Start with your bass eq knob at 5 / straight up.

A 4x10 cab when used right is enough for most bassists.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hi. New to the forum. New to bass actually. I’ve been a guitar player for years and I’m only starting to experiment with the bass.

In an age of in-house miking etc. this question is maybe a bit moot, but out of curiosity let’s say you’re playing in a loud garage band, which plays modern hard rock and metal, and your guitar player is playing through a 50watt (tubes) half stack.

What bass amp/cab combination would you use to compete with that, as well as a loud drummer, in terms of wattage for the amp (tube or solid state), and number/size of speakers?

My mates and I have always used a 300watt solid state 1x15 Trace Elliot combo plus 4x10 Hartke extension cab. For the most part it has served us well in jam sessions but I’m not sure it’s ideal to ensure the bass is heard/felt as it should be. Any advice?

50 watts into a half stack can be ferociously loud. When I was in a band like that, I doubled up on the 410s and had enough for any loud rehearsal and could carry a gig if PA support was lacking. Once we had a real PA I dumped it for a combo.

What you have is probably plenty for stage but if you are carrying the room/front of house I think you’ll need more. If you guys like to turn up then you might fry the 15 before you even know there is a problem, due to the 410 being WAY louder. A cost effective solution might be dumping the trace for another Hartke 410 and whatever amp you like. The cabinets can be had very cheaply and leave budget for a head.