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Noob questions alert!

Evil Undead

Evil Undead

Oct 31, 2009
3,844
587
#1
If anyone can help me in the simplest possible terms, I'd be most grateful :o

I've just started playing out with the band, and finding my cab ridiculously heavy to take to and from gigs (I live on the top floor of an apartment block with no elevator)

So I'm thinking about going direct to the PA but don't know how or even where to start!

My head is a Hartke HA2500 - can I use this to go direct to the mixer, or do I need a DI box? And erm... what is a DI box? I'm only using this term because I've heard it around the forum!

Apologies for the dumb questions, but I'm new to all this and very clueless :D
 
#2
Not dumb questions at all. So let's start from the beginning. DI is short for "Direct Injection" but is commonly referred to as a direct box or DI. The purpose of a DI box is to take an unbalanced high impedance instrument signal (which has a "hot" signal wire and a ground resulting in a high electrical impedance that can only be run over fairly short cable lengths) and convert it to a balanced low-impedance signal (with a "hot/postive", "cold/negative" and ground wires resulting in a low impedance which can be run over long cable lengths). So in a nutshell it takes your bass guitar's output and converts it into a balanced signal that can run all the way to the PA system.

Your Hartke head has a balanced DI output on the back, but because there is a power amp built into your head, a speaker cabinet must be plugged in to avoid damage. So your head is meant to power a speaker cabinet AND feed the PA.

Back to DI boxes. There are three basic types that apply to your situation: passive, active, and preamp DIs. A passive DI requires no power source. An active DI looks just like a passive DI but requires a power source (either a battery or phantom power from the mixing console). Active DI boxes have a slightly different tonality but can accomodate cable runs in the hundreds of feet. Passive DI boxes have less circuitry to color the sound but there can be signal loss if the cable run to the PA is extremely long. The third type of DI will have a preamp/EQ section designed for bass with a DI output. The advantage to these devices is that you can shape the tone any way you want and then send that processed sound to the PA. Examples of this type of DI include the Aguilar Tone Hammer, Sadowsky Preamp/DI, Tech21 VT Deluxe, Tech21 SansAmp Bass Driver, MXR M80 Bass DI, the EBS MicroBass Preamp/DI, and the Line6 Bass Pod.

So here's how the connection works. Your bass plugs into the DI box using a regular 1/4" cable and then the DI box plugs into the PA system using a mic cable (known as an XLR cable because of the 3-pin XLR connectors).

Last but not least, in order to play directly through the PA, you'll need a way to hear yourself. This means you will need a monitor speaker and a separate monitor mix so you can put more bass in your monitor than in the other players monitors.
 
#6
A couple of points about the HA2500 - I currently use one as my main amp .

Firstly, it does not have any DI output. Your only options are an effects loop on 2 speaker outputs.

Second, as confirmation, it is solid state only...no valves feature in this amp. As for whether you need a load on the amp - I have no idea.

So, your DI options all require a separate DI box of some form as described by testing1two
 
#7
happycat said:
A couple of points about the HA2500 - I currently use one as my main amp .

Firstly, it does not have any DI output. Your only options are an effects loop on 2 speaker outputs.

Second, as confirmation, it is solid state only...no valves feature in this amp. As for whether you need a load on the amp - I have no idea.

So, your DI options all require a separate DI box of some form as described by testing1two
Click to expand...

One of the preamps is valve actually :)

Ok. So I need a DI box. I'll have a look in to it.

As for monitors, we play very small places with a small pa, and the pa speakers are behind us. Would I still need a monitor in this situation?
 
#8
Evil Undead said:
One of the preamps is valve actually :)

Ok. So I need a DI box. I'll have a look in to it.

As for monitors, we play very small places with a small pa, and the pa speakers are behind us. Would I still need a monitor in this situation?
Click to expand...

Only if you want to hear yourself. =) Actually, in your situation it's a matter of trial and error to determine how much bass needs to be going through the mains for you to hear yourself without overpowering the mix.
 
#9
GrowlerBox said:
I'd go along with that, except that if the Hartke has a solid state power section (as appears to be the case), then it shouldn't need a speaker connected to operate safely and could function as a preamp/active DI.
Click to expand...

It's really design dependent, not tube/solid state dependent. I always advise on the side of caution unless I have access to the product manual and it tells me it's ok.
 
#11
Evil Undead said:
One of the preamps is valve actually :)

Ok. So I need a DI box. I'll have a look in to it.

As for monitors, we play very small places with a small pa, and the pa speakers are behind us. Would I still need a monitor in this situation?
Click to expand...

Be warned that unless the PA has subs, your bass will probably not sound very good. Small PA speakers (even the 15" type) are not really designed for bass.

Have you thought about getting lighter cabs? Or try to find somewhere else to store you cabs?
 
#12
seanm said:
Be warned that unless the PA has subs, your bass will probably not sound very good. Small PA speakers (even the 15" type) are not really designed for bass.

Have you thought about getting lighter cabs? Or try to find somewhere else to store you cabs?
Click to expand...

Oh, bummer. The PA speakers that our singer has are (I think) 12" so it might not be plausible then.

At the moment I have one GK 2x10 cab, which doesn't sound like much but it's all I need for the moment. It weighs in at 44lbs which isn't really heavy, but with several flights of narrow stairs and a bad back to contend with, it's a bit tricky.

Are there any lighter cabs on the market apart from the Markbass traveler 210 (amazing cab but way out of my price range)?
 
#13
testing1two said:
It's really design dependent, not tube/solid state dependent. I always advise on the side of caution unless I have access to the product manual and it tells me it's ok.
Click to expand...

In that, if you design a solid state power section it doesn't need a load, and if you design a tube amp, it does :).

The exception to this rule is older SS amps with output transformers. There may be the odd boutique one being made somewhere ....
 
#14
Evil Undead said:
One of the preamps is valve actually :)

Ok. So I need a DI box. I'll have a look in to it.

As for monitors, we play very small places with a small pa, and the pa speakers are behind us. Would I still need a monitor in this situation?
Click to expand...

As I said - there are NO valves in the HA2500. One of the pre-amps is a valve emulation. It is definitely does not have any valves - I have looked.
 
#16
I can't move. This place is at the upper limit of what I can afford, and everywhere else is more expensive - plus there's removal costs, deposit etc.

I have a girlfriend, but I'm not burdening her with my gear, it's my hobby not hers
 
#17
Evil Undead said:
I can't move. This place is at the upper limit of what I can afford, and everywhere else is more expensive - plus there's removal costs, deposit etc.

I have a girlfriend, but I'm not burdening her with my gear, it's my hobby not hers
Click to expand...

Sorry for being a smart ass. Its more a matter of you have no real solution, short of the ones that are obvious. You aren't going to find a 2x10 or 1x15 box that is really significantly lighter. Might look at a 1x10. Doesn't drive a lot of air, but it would allow you to hear yourself.

I hear you regarding making your GF carry your stuff. It's just that I see so many musicians that do that ....I was thinking I was the only gigger left on earth with any personal manly pride. Thanks for confirming I'm not the only guy out there that thinks making your GF haul your rig makes you a grade A pussy.
 
#18
I have in the past rigged a cable and pulley that could be mounted and unmounted to the window frame outside an upstairs apartment when I would regularly have to take multiple large loads of luggage/clothes/etc. out of the place. You COULD emulate that by simply getting cable and lowering the head to the bottom floor, but I am not sure that's the answer for one small-ish load like an amp head... not to mention the consequences if you do it wrong.:bawl:

Keithwah said:
Thanks for confirming I'm not the only guy out there that thinks making your GF haul your rig makes you a grade A pussy.
Click to expand...

No. No you are not. Glad to see that chivalry is not dead.
 
#19
Keithwah said:
Sorry for being a smart ass. Its more a matter of you have no real solution, short of the ones that are obvious. You aren't going to find a 2x10 or 1x15 box that is really significantly lighter. Might look at a 1x10. Doesn't drive a lot of air, but it would allow you to hear yourself.

I hear you regarding making your GF carry your stuff. It's just that I see so many musicians that do that ....I was thinking I was the only gigger left on earth with any personal manly pride. Thanks for confirming I'm not the only guy out there that thinks making your GF haul your rig makes you a grade A pussy.
Click to expand...

I don't think you were being a smart ass. Before my explanation, I agree that it did seem like the best option.

I thought about a 1x10 but didn't know that they existed. Might be worth looking in to getting a couple of those, thanks bud! Would I use two of them for a gig in series or in parallel with my Hartke HA200? And what about just hooking up one with that amp for practicing at home?


Saxn said:
I have in the past rigged a cable and pulley that could be mounted and unmounted to the window frame outside an upstairs apartment when I would regularly have to take multiple large loads of luggage/clothes/etc. out of the place. You COULD emulate that by simply getting cable and lowering the head to the bottom floor, but I am not sure that's the answer for one small-ish load like an amp head... not to mention the consequences if you do it wrong.
Click to expand...

It's a good idea but for a cab, it's too much of a risk especially as I live on a busy street... don't think the neighbours would appreciate a 40lb cab on their head haha
 

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