Not loud enough stage volume (per the gitards) in an auditorium

[fishstick666]

Help! My cumbia/chichi/rock band is complaining about my lack of stage volume when we play warehouse/auditorium type of events. This had been a recurrent problem with these types of gigs.

Today, we played a school gym, about the size of 3 basketball courts with not a lot of people inside. We were on a large stage, very spread out, 2 guitarists (medium sized fender amps - at reasonable volume), a not too hard hitting Latin-style drummer and me on bass.

I was playing a G&L M2500 through a GK MB210 (2x10)- 350 watts at 8 ohms, supposedly PA support (direct) but no monitors on stage (and a marginal PA). I eq'd it well so I didn't have much boominess and was happy with my sound (got the thumbs up from the sound guy in the audience). But, I had my master and gain almost all of the way up, and the guitards were complaining they still couldn't hear me. And, I could barely hear the rest of the band because the bass was so loud to me. The drummer heard me, but I was right next to him.

I have an extension cabinet (2x10) that would push me up to 500 watts. Or I can field a Aggie Tonehammer 350 at full wattage with a 2x10 and 1x12.

The has been an issue playing outdoors or in a warehouse-like room without PA support. In a club, or with good PA support, there's no problem and everyone's happy.

What's my problem? Is it amp placement? Would it be better to play with 2 cabinets not stacked and point in slightly different directions? Do I need more wattage, or more speakers moving more air?

Thanks for suggestions.

Sincerely - Tired of hearing the Guitarists whine!

 

[StraightSix]

In big rooms like that you will definitely benefit from the extension cab.

As a general rule of thumb, more speakers is better than more watts.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Everyone is at a good volume for the FOH but bass is lacking on stage. You could use an IEM system.

What are these reasonably quiet Fender guitar amps? Colour me suspicious they ain't all that quiet.

Playing outside with just a 210 is needing monitors. Not much to do but stack another 210 and stand in the middle.

Your PA supported gym gigs would easily suffer too much stage volume though.

 

[chris_b]

Never mind what's going on out front, in the absence of monitors you've still got to be heard on stage.

So the guys in the band are complaining that your stage volume is not high enough, and you have a 210 extension cab, but aren't using it?

I'm wondering why not?

 

[waltdogg]

Try the extension cab first.

 

[pbass6811]

Never mind what's going on out front, in the absence of monitors you've still got to be heard on stage.

So the guys in the band are complaining that your stage volume is not high enough, and you have a 210 extension cab, but aren't using it?

I'm wondering why not?

^^^This^^^

Unless there's some issue with the 210 extension cab that's not being mentioned, you should probably be using that for all warehouse/auditorium/outdoor gigs, especially if you have questionable PA support. I know there's guys who play stadiums with combo amps, but they always have solid PA support up to, and usually including, IEMs. The rest of us schmucks gotta make sure our stage volume is reasonable AND good for everybody on stage.

Btw, the sound guy giving you a "thumbs up" means nothing...

 

[Bass_Thumper]

I think as a band, you guys should save up and get yourselves some monitors and the supporting equipment. You'll all be able to hear each other mixed like you like it and you won't have to run your amp at full blast.

 

[Rick James]

The has been an issue playing outdoors or in a warehouse-like room without PA support. In a club, or with good PA support, there's no problem and everyone's happy.

Looks like you already know what the cure for the problem is.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I wouldn't even try to play any gig with a single 2x10. What speaker cabinets are your guitar players using?

 

[hrodbert696]

I wouldn't even try to play any gig with a single 2x10. What speaker cabinets are your guitar players using?

I play with a 2x10 all the time and have plenty of volume: at outdoor gigs we go through a good strong sub in the PA. I agree that the OP's band probably needs to invest in a decent PA, and for stage volume it may be as simple as pointing his amp across the stage some rather than out into the audience.

 

[DWBass]

You can't spread so far apart and be able to hear each other without monitors. Secondly, you weren't pushing enough air. Need more speakers.

 

[walterw]

But, I had my master and gain almost all of the way up, and the guitards were complaining they still couldn't hear me. And, I could barely hear the rest of the band because the bass was so loud to me. The drummer heard me, but I was right next to him.

bring the matched extension cab, stack them vertically behind you, don't turn everything all the way up (yikes), adjust to where you can hear yourself with a good clean sound, be no louder than the drummer, and that's that.

the other guys will probably hear you better with your second cab going, but either way that's what PA monitors are for. maybe they need to turn the hell down.

 

[Trabeen]

You spelled it "gitard" as well as "guitard", are they different entities?

 

[Johnny Crab]

Big stage + no/minimal monitors = need more cabs on stage.

 

[bobcruz]

Stack the 210s vertically (tallest direction in the vertical plane), but have the top cab rotated 90 degrees and point the corner of the stack to the front. This will give you the best possible spread of sound across the stage. When I do this I point the bottom cab at the drummer since he's sitting lower than anyone else.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I play with a 2x10 all the time and have plenty of volume: at outdoor gigs we go through a good strong sub in the PA. I agree that the OP's band probably needs to invest in a decent PA, and for stage volume it may be as simple as pointing his amp across the stage some rather than out into the audience.

Good for you. I would not do the same. A pair of my Acmes, stacked vertically, cover all my needs and take up the same stage area as one. There is a safety factor in using two cabinets. Half way through the last set is not the time to discover that you should have been using two cabinets. That could be a good reason for me never having blown a driver in my entire career.

 

[MJ_Sotti]

I was told by one of our "guitarcisists" yesterday I was too loud at sound check before there was a borderline microburst just about right over us and blew everything everywhere then flooded the field.

Don't ever tell a bass player he's too loud Sayeth the Lord.

 

[Slevage]

That's a situation where an extension cab on the opposite side of the stage works better for me than a stacked rig.

I "place" the sound where it's needed instead of trying to " throw" it there.
Works especially good at low volume too.

 

[two fingers]

Stack the 210s vertically (tallest direction in the vertical plane), but have the top cab rotated 90 degrees and point the corner of the stack to the front. This will give you the best possible spread of sound across the stage. When I do this I point the bottom cab at the drummer since he's sitting lower than anyone else.

This is exactly what crossed my.mind the moment I read the OP had a second 2-10. One pointed out and one pointed cross stage. It works best if you are one end of the stage and your rig is at the back of the stage.

This should get it done.

 

[gjbassist]

First of all this:
Can we please stop using "guitard"? | TalkBass.com

Second:
Use the extension cabinet! Also run your direct out on the amp to the PA and get some monitors. That is the best way for others in the band to hear you without having to crank your amp volume so high.