Not really what I wanted to hear.

[40Hz]

That's a jazz thing. Jazz is a life-long endeavor. My mentor would woodshed on his Gibson L5 for hours on end. Gave lessons for five times my hourly wage and had to drive 100 miles for his lessons. He could play three note chords faster and cleaner than my teen-age cohorts could do single note leads. Bluesmen, rockers, country boys and all that have to be very good to make it big but those Jazz cats are a different breed. You have to be very good just to be anonymous.

Fair enough. But I'm not sure I completely buy into the whole jazz mystique. Some of it is very real. But a lot of it strikes me as simple posturing. Possibly my opinion is shaped by the fact I started with jazz and played that for about the first five years I was learning music, combined with how I really don't care much for how a lot of jazz sounds. Bebop and Dixieland Swing are about the only styles within the genre I could ever really appreciate if I was being honest with myself. But that's me.

In the case of the old cat, he was taking about my then half-assed knowledge of harmony and basic theory. And he was right. I didn't know what I needed to know half as well as I was kidding myself I did. And my laziness about correcting that deficiency was holding me back.

He meant well. And that's why I took everything he ever said (and he shared some other valuable advice with me) to heart.

 

[40Hz]

Just my opinion: if a guitarist -- any guitarist -- offered me advice on my bass playing that involved palm muting and using all downstrokes with my pick, I'd probably follow up with some conversations with actual bassists, because it kind of sounds like he gave you advice on how to play bass like a guitarist would.

I'd be more likely to just try it out, and then form my own opinion. Some bass players can be just as wrong about how to play bass as anybody else.

 

[JGbassman]

Hmm, how to approach this. I have played professionally and with many, many talented players in my opinion, much better than me and truly awe inspiring. On that behalf I feel lucky. But I never once thought to ask them to critique my playing, as they aren't bassists. Tables turned, a great sax player or guitarist are a blast to play with and groove with, but I'd never know what to tell them to further their playing ability. Simple things such as timing or technical prowess (knowing your scales or chords) would be evident, but besides that I would be clueless. We think differently, and approach music in a completely different manner.

My best tool for learning is recording myself. I'm far more hard on my playing than any other musician, and I can recognize areas I need to work on (there are many, believe me) just to be satisfied at the end of a show. I can pick apart my playing at a microscopic level, and fix issues I hear.

My biggest piece of advice regarding playing is to know your fretboard, don't over play, and keep mistakes or wrong notes at a minimum. You can be creative, but stay within your abilities. That is advice regardless of instrument.

So while the pro guitarist probably had some good pointers, remember those are his opinions based at looking at you through a guitarists eyes. For me, I'd much rather get the opinion of a drummer, as I work much closer with them.


I did a show a few years ago with the great Denny Laine, whom was a member of the Moody Blues and Wings, where the bassist was Paul McCartney. ( yes I was/am a fan) After the show as I was walking off the stage, Denny pops me on the shoulder and says, "nice playing mate!" And gives me a smile. That for me was a wonderful compliment from a world class player, and my inner geek freaked a little but I held it together, lol. He didn't critique my playing, but he obviously liked what he heard. I didn't play a perfect show, but I knew the material well enough to get a passing grade by the man himself.

Here is a pic of Denny and I as I display my novice fanboy manners. I know this isn't cool in the pro circles, but it was Denny Laine, dammit!

Good luck with your playing, and keep learning. Advise is very helpful, but remember it's still just one persons opinion. Don't let the advise of one consume you.

 

[jamro217]

You missed the point. You asked what he would have wanted from your playing, and AFTER A BIT OF THOUGHT, he said "technique". If he meant to insult you, he'd have answered right away, and probably wouldn't pull any punches. He could have said something like "for it to be in another band". This sounds like an honest attempt to help another musician (who initiated this line of inquiry) to improve. If everyone was this honest, the world would be a much easier place to navigate.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I dig his attitude ... he's a frank guy... do your homework and practice good luck

 

[Torrente Cro]

I like a saying "man and a donkey are smarter than man alone". I like hearing advice and opinions, some I may use and some not.

 

[FenderB]

That was good criticism. At least it sounds like you groove.

Once I played some gigs with a well known funk musician, and his comment was "Funk is a funny thing..", pause, then stabs his finger to my chest, ".. and you're not it!" Now that's a put down!

What don't kill you makes you stronger.

Wow, I bet that was tough to take.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

His key comment was to get a compressor but not until I work on my actual physical movements.

But on the night he suggested palm muting (which I never do) and just using down picks (I'm a pick player) when I'm playing 8ths to even out the attack. That sort of has the same leveling effect, usually I'd up/down pick and control the ringing string with my left fingers in the frets, not a totally successful way of doing it but not too bad.

I've also auditioned and played with people who are pretty pro level and I've recorded tracks with an engineer who did work for Cher and Guns and Roses. Nobody ever said anything probably because I didn't ask.

I figured this guy is a hired gun so I night as well get some free lessons.

Only down picking with palm muting sounds like a recipe for hand pain. Maybe it works on guitar, not so much on bass,except as an effect.

 

[GManfromOz]

So you ask a question of a seasoned pro, and want an honest answer. Then he gives it to you and you get upset. You asked him what he wanted from your playing, not your gear. If you don't want the truth, don't ask. Take his advice and learn from it.

You've got it completely wrong my friend, I guess I should have used the "/sarc"

It was a somewhat tongue in cheek commentary on what a lot of budding musicians (and golfers) tend to think, ie. 'Just that one new piece of gear is all I need to be awesome". The amount of cash I've spent in music and golf shops on the "revolutionary" widget that will make all the difference!

My point is that it's not the gear it's the practice time you put, your willingness to get advice, and your ability to adapt if warranted.

 

[GManfromOz]

Most pro musicians could care less about your pedals, they just want you to sound like a nice fat bass, and to provide the bottom and the groove, and have good time.
Most good bassists can do all those things without any pedals.

Yes, but I asked him what HE wanted to hear as a professional. He was happy with the groove and tone which I was pretty pleased about.

He's also produced songs so he's across a range of sounds and mixes.

 

[GManfromOz]

Only down picking with palm muting sounds like a recipe for hand pain. Maybe it works on guitar, not so much on bass,except as an effect.

And indeed it is! My arm is still sore.

 

[GManfromOz]

You missed the point. You asked what he would have wanted from your playing, and AFTER A BIT OF THOUGHT, he said "technique". If he meant to insult you, he'd have answered right away, and probably wouldn't pull any punches. He could have said something like "for it to be in another band". This sounds like an honest attempt to help another musician (who initiated this line of inquiry) to improve. If everyone was this honest, the world would be a much easier place to navigate.

No and yes, see my later reply. This was a slightly tongue in cheek commentary on buying gear vs playing/practice/peer review. Cheers though.

 

[csc2048b]

maybe he means you should learn to play pizzicato and slap?

i'm kidding of course.

 

[avvie]

Just my opinion: if a guitarist -- any guitarist -- offered me advice on my bass playing that involved palm muting and using all downstrokes with my pick, I'd probably follow up with some conversations with actual bassists, because it kind of sounds like he gave you advice on how to play bass like a guitarist would.

Maybe but not necessarily. Without hearing the context of the tune he may have been exactly right. Sometimes pick players are not aware of how distracting it is when every note rings and fades throughout the song. The Police's Masoka Tango would be an entirely different tune without the muting.

 

[Pbassmanca]

Even when our playing isn't perfect......We still have this......

 

[Aidenn7]

So he told you.. you were sloppy and need a better muting.. means too many notes(not bad notes) just too busy. He could hear the noise in your playing. the up picking notes can too much with sympathetic Ringing Overtones. a good trick its a hair tye on the strings. manages the overtones. yep! Goodluck man!

 

[Rabidhamster]

Sounds like he could be a great friend. Any old person that doesn't care about you can say something nice to hear, but it takes someone that actually cares to tell you something of substance.

 

[Plutonium244]

His key comment was to get a compressor but not until I work on my actual physical movements.

But on the night he suggested palm muting (which I never do) and just using down picks (I'm a pick player) when I'm playing 8ths to even out the attack. That sort of has the same leveling effect, usually I'd up/down pick and control the ringing string with my left fingers in the frets, not a totally successful way of doing it but not too bad.

I've also auditioned and played with people who are pretty pro level and I've recorded tracks with an engineer who did work for Cher and Guns and Roses. Nobody ever said anything probably because I didn't ask.

I figured this guy is a hired gun so I night as well get some free lessons.

Sounds like he had some good advice for you, and thanks to your courage to ask, you're better off for it. If you've only been playing a few years, then of course you need to work on technique. I have been playing for 35 years and working on technique is still as important for me as for you. At least he didn't say "everything", lol.

 

[Ellery]

So we've got this pro guitarist subbing for us, toured with national acts, recorded albums, tutor to the stars, etc. He's done three gigs and a rehearsal with us and it's been awesome but it hasn't been "social" as we're gigging not sitting around shooting the breeze. This weekend we had two gigs away so there was some social time and I got to know him a bit better. No dramas, good guy and very approachable.

So after the first set of gig two we were chatting about who is in tune and who isn't and I plucked up the courage to ask him something I simply can't ask anyone else as most non bass players or hacks like me would just say everything sounds good if you're in tune.

He knows I've been playing for only a few years and have no ego about my skills whatsoever so I asked "if there's one thing you'd want from my playing what would it be?"

He gave it a little bit of thought and said "technique". Bastard!

I wanted him to say I needed some new pedals, extra cabs or whatever but it came down to that thing I've gotta work at. Disappointed!

(NB. I applied a couple of his tips into the last two sets and the difference was notable, and good.)

Doesn't sound like he was trying to put you down, you are lucky to get input from a pro. And you took it like a man so it can do you some good. The journey to improved technique never ends. The journey is it's own reward, and terminates only with death or disinterest.

 

[grrg63]

Knowing when and when not to palm mute is the secret to good pick playing.