Now I Remember Why I Stopped Trying To Walk...

[Groove Master]

Write it down. I believe it is the best way to learn an approach. Start with one approach and write it down on paper at least for a section.

 

[JRA]

There is this tune called Cloudburst.

that tune is spanking! way fun!

Although I can understand some of 'Joe Cool's' annoyance, that sort of unfortunate behavior (and on the part of far too many jazzers) is exactly the clique attitude and petty grandstanding that completely turned me off to the whole jazz scene. Sorry you had to get subjected to some of that.

Maybe it's completely different today, or elsewhere. But I doubt it.

snobs are snobs. rude is rude. meanies are always limited, somehow. sorry you haven't had the experience of 'fraternity' with the majority of jazz cats who are at once 'the salt of the earth' and kind/generous/helpful = they're musicians!. IME: the 'good ones' are everywhere jazz is played! i see more cliques, arrogance, and BS in rock (bluegrass has its thing, too!). know any classical/orchestral players? it's just that some jazz (any genre!) cats act like they 'know more' just because they probably do know more than the cat they're picking on! also: where douchebaggery is concerned = safety in numbers! anyway, good luck with jazz cats going forward!


per the OP: tons of great advice for you in your thread! i pretty much take my note choice for granted and don't think about it much after the count off, but 'feel' (swing, mostly) is something that makes immediate sense to you when you're doing it right...it's the ultimate 'pocket'/groove! and watching/listening to a good swing player (the right teacher!) would help you quickly, and forever! good luck learning to walk!

 

[4001]

Write it down. I believe it is the best way to learn an approach. Start with one approach and write it down on paper at least for a section.

That is one thing I do a lot when it's something more difficult to learn.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Hard it is.....reward is great.

It's a huge help to have a good teacher that can explain sub chords... alternative scales to use on certain chords.... natural extensions of chords etc....

It truly is an art.

 

[40Hz]

anyway, good luck with jazz cats going forward!

I'm completely out of it these days. Did jazz for the first seven years I was playing. Mainly upright bass too no less!

I had excellent teachers. Met an assortment of musicians with personalities both good and bad. And although I still listen to jazz (mostly hard bop and bebop on LPs) I've since moved on to other things of musical interest. I have no hard feelings or regrets. But I also have zero interest in returning to my jazz roots or taking up with the jazz scene again.

 

[MrLenny1]

Navigating jazz tunes in The Real Book was one of
the biggest advances in my playing.

 

[JRA]

But I also have zero interest in returning to my jazz roots or taking up with the jazz scene again.

yeah, i feel the same about my punk rock experiences!

 

[40Hz]

yeah, i feel the same about my punk rock experiences!

Yeah. Me too. It was a brief fling.

 

[twinjet]

For the last five years, I've added jazz into the various genres I listen to when I work, drive, or have free time - so unfortunately, it gets spread between hip-hop, prog rock, metal, funk, Motown, and classical.

This decision, honestly, kinda came out of the blue (I was set on playing jazzy music but with funkier basslines, so most of my listening recently was just funk, hip-hop, or groovier jazz forms).

I'm going to cut that stuff out for now, and focus on the standards and classic recordings.

Immerse yourself in the post bop era. John Coltrane. Charles Mingus. Bill Evans. Miles Davis. Herbie Hancock. These are several of the most important jazz artists of the 50s through 70s. You'll do some solid learning if you dive headlong into it.

 

[KohanMike]

When my uke group leader added "Fly Me to the Moon" to our play book, I immediately went to my bass teacher for a lesson in walking bass (Denny Croy at McCabe's Guitar Shop). He taught me the patterns for major and minor chords, and going up and down the scale. I then wrote out an arrangement, but I still have to lock it in my brain, we only play it on occasion and I forget the sequence I set up and keep stumbling my way through it.

 

[Matthew_84]

Got a welcome delivery today...

 

[ltownbass]

Navigating a jazz sequence is just like learning to drive a car, in many respects. Just use the skills you have already, even if they are quite basic, and try to look as far ahead as you can. If you can't see around a corner or past a hazard, keep your eye on the road in front of you and make sure you're ready to start looking ahead again once you've made it round the corner or hazard.
The most important thing is don't crash! The more complicated skills you need will reveal themselves once you've got some miles on the clock.

Sorry to just pile in with another viewpoint and sorry if I've taken the metaphor too far!

 

[Matthew_84]

Had an interesting experience today...

Long story short, for the last 5 years, I've been very content on playing by myself. For whatever reason, I've had bad experiences playing with others (clashing egos, opposing musical tastes, lack of preparation/commitment/time, etc).

Even with this journey of embarking in Jazz, I didn't want to play with others - despite all of your guys' recommendations to do so.

I was fully planning on learning how to walk, then play a piccolo bass for melodies, and record my own one-take jazz recordings (sequence drums with a song structure and melody in mind, record the melody and improvising from it in one-take, and recording an improvised one-take walking line underneath).

Until just an hour ago.

I was driving to an appointment, listening to Kenny Dorham's "Blue Bossa" and started humming an improvised, melodic bassline.

I was kind of blown away. I thought I was very boring musically (and maybe I am when I'm too busy trying to think of chord tones and scales, instead of letting the music flow through me - but hopefully that will change as I work on this stuff and have to think less about it). However, what I was humming was very musical and nice. I was also adapting it to the soloist's lines and even in one case, predicting what they were going to play and duplicating it with them - despite not really knowing the song.

That's when it hit me. What if they could hear me too and change their lines?

The idea of that musical conversation is really interesting to me, and something I would not be able to duplicate at home, playing by myself, recording separate lines at separate times.

My personal recordings would never be able to compete with a recording of a few specialists building off each other organically.

I will need to record some of these sessions though, because producing something tangible is the main appeal to me for recording my own stuff.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. Needless to say, I'm changing my priorities a bit...

It will be a long time before I'm capable of playing these musical ideas without getting lost in thinking of the scale and chord tones, and instead just play musically. It will take even longer to play along to the humming in my head, instead of forcing a line, but I can't wait to get there.

 

[CallMeAl]

Had an interesting experience today...

Long story short, for the last 5 years, I've been very content on playing by myself. For whatever reason, I've had bad experiences playing with others (clashing egos, opposing musical tastes, lack of preparation/commitment/time, etc).

Even with this journey of embarking in Jazz, I didn't want to play with others - despite all of your guys' recommendations to do so.

I was fully planning on learning how to walk, then play a piccolo bass for melodies, and record my own one-take jazz recordings (sequence drums with a song structure and melody in mind, record the melody and improvising from it in one-take, and recording an improvised one-take walking line underneath).

Until just an hour ago.

I was driving to an appointment, listening to Kenny Dorham's "Blue Bossa" and started humming an improvised, melodic bassline.

I was kind of blown away. I thought I was very boring musically (and maybe I am when I'm too busy trying to think of chord tones and scales, instead of letting the music flow through me - but hopefully that will change as I work on this stuff and have to think less about it). However, what I was humming was very musical and nice. I was also adapting it to the soloist's lines and even in one case, predicting what they were going to play and duplicating it with them - despite not really knowing the song.

That's when it hit me. What if they could hear me too and change their lines?

The idea of that musical conversation is really interesting to me, and something I would not be able to duplicate at home, playing by myself, recording separate lines at separate times.

My personal recordings would never be able to compete with a recording of a few specialists building off each other organically.

I will need to record some of these sessions though, because producing something tangible is the main appeal to me for recording my own stuff.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. Needless to say, I'm changing my priorities a bit...

It will be a long time before I'm capable of playing these musical ideas without getting lost in thinking of the scale and chord tones, and instead just play musically. It will take even longer to play along to the humming in my head, instead of forcing a line, but I can't wait to get there.

I had a phase where i just wrote songs on the computer. I thought it would be easy; no scheduling, auditioning, traveling... but I soon realized I missed the connection with other musicians. The communication and interplay. The product that is greater than the sum of the parts.

In college, we learned an exercise where we sang solos/improvisations into a voice recorder. Then go back and try to play those lines on your instrument. An amazing, frustrating , eye opening exercise. The voice is a great middle-man between your brain and your instrument. Learning how to play what you sing (and sing what you play) really strengthens your ability to play what you are thinking.

 

[Matthew_84]

I had a phase where i just wrote songs on the computer. I thought it would be easy; no scheduling, auditioning, traveling... but I soon realized I missed the connection with other musicians. The communication and interplay. The product that is greater than the sum of the parts.

In college, we learned an exercise where we sang solos/improvisations into a voice recorder. Then go back and try to play those lines on your instrument. An amazing, frustrating , eye opening exercise. The voice is a great middle-man between your brain and your instrument. Learning how to play what you sing (and sing what you play) really strengthens your ability to play what you are thinking.

Thanks! That's definitely one of the things I'm going to work on doing. I appreciate it!

 

[Matthew_84]

Question: If, eventually, I am singing along and playing the lines that I'm singing, wouldn't that be annoying to the other musicians? Is this a common thing for jazz musicians to do? I know Oscar Peterson did it (and truthfully, while I love OP, that's one thing in his recordings I could do without).

Does this external singing and playing (while I understand its purpose of fusing the two entities together) develop into a voice you can have internally?

 

[Wasnex]

Question: If, eventually, I am singing along and playing the lines that I'm singing, wouldn't that be annoying to the other musicians? Is this a common thing for jazz musicians to do? I know Oscar Peterson did it (and truthfully, while I love OP, that's one thing in his recordings I could do without).

Does this external singing and playing (while I understand its purpose of fusing the two entities together) develop into a voice you can have internally?

In music school I was taught to make pitches with my breath and mouth. Basically it's unfocused pseudo-whistling, where the tones are barely perceptible, even in a quiet room.

 

[Matthew_84]

In music school I was taught to make pitches with my breath and mouth. Basically it's unfocused pseudo-whistling, where the tones are barely perceptible, even in a quiet room.

I see. I'm not sure I'm doing it right, lol, but that will work! Thanks

 

[Matthew_84]

In music school I was taught to make pitches with my breath and mouth. Basically it's unfocused pseudo-whistling, where the tones are barely perceptible, even in a quiet room.

I've been trying this with my bass this morning, and I find that the breathed note gets drowned out by my bass, making it hard to compare the note I'm thinking/singing, with the one I'm playing.

Is that okay?

Also, I will say that my signing and vocal pitch reproduction is bad (I'm working on it), but because I can't really hear this breathed note, it's hard to tell if I'm even doing it in tune.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

I've been trying this with my bass this morning, and I find that the breathed note gets drowned out by my bass, making it hard to compare the note I'm thinking/singing, with the one I'm playing.

Is that okay?

Also, I will say that my signing and vocal pitch reproduction is bad (I'm working on it), but because I can't really hear this breathed note, it's hard to tell if I'm even doing it in tune.

Listen to some Keith Jarret recordings. He sings all the time when soloing, totally out of key and tune. What you hear inside your head may very well not be what comes out of your mouth.