Now I'm mad

[mike phillips]

s.c. is a no helmet but wear a seat belt state. i do not ride a bike. i do believe it was voted down by the bike community. again, the seat belt thing should be my choice. its easy money for the state. $50 for not wearin a belt.

 

[Matt Fat Cat]

Vincent Rennich alleged got lung cancer from working in the Tropicana Casino in New Jersey.

Marlene Sharp allegedly got throat and lung cancer from working in a hotel in New South Wales.

Google it, there's a lot of them. Of course they're all alleged. As a health care professional you certainly know how difficult it is to prove the cause of cancer. Also, every one I found was an employee of the business, spending perhaps 8 hours a day in a smoking environment. They probably get a larger dose than most smokers.

You said it... the key word is "alleged". We can pretty much establish most causes of disease thru medical etiology. Technology is vast and so is the amount of brain power available. So again I propose... find one documented case... it's easy... you cannot. As for 8 hours a day in a smoking envir., well that's uncalled for, unless you work in a bar. Reasonable measures and fairness should prevail... not illogical, emotionally charged response.

 

[Matt Fat Cat]

What people grow in their gardens or do to relax after a long day's work is none of my business and of no harm to me or the government, and I don't like my tax dollars wasted on harassing them or housing them in jail.

Rather than ask questions, try answering some yourself. Try explaining the difference between me urinating on your clothes or you smoking up mine. Let's presume the bar owner says it's OK for me to do so - perhaps he just doesn't like your cop outs or whatever. What's the difference?

Honestly SMASH... that is maybe the dumbest statement I have ever heard from an individual. I'm picturing the commercial of the kid with a hammer trying to beat the square block thru the round hole. I don't want to sound mean, but I just can't go there with you. I could create any number of ideal situations which would force you to contradict any/all of your ethics... it's simple really.

I'll leave it at this... you are right, and I am wrong. You have proved your point and are a worthy intellectual foe.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

You said it... the key word is "alleged". We can pretty much establish most causes of disease thru medical etiology. Technology is vast and so is the amount of brain power available. So again I propose... find one documented case... it's easy... you cannot. As for 8 hours a day in a smoking envir., well that's uncalled for, unless you work in a bar. Reasonable measures and fairness should prevail... not illogical, emotionally charged response.

Can you find one documented case of a person getting a disease from smoking? By documented, I mean proven.

 

[JahNissi]

Honestly SMASH... that is maybe the dumbest statement I have ever heard from an individual. I'm picturing the commercial of the kid with a hammer trying to beat the square block thru the round hole. I don't want to sound mean, but I just can't go there with you. I could create any number of ideal situations which would force you to contradict any/all of your ethics... it's simple really.

I'll leave it at this... you are right, and I am wrong. You have proved your point and are a worthy intellectual foe.

Then DO it! This entire time you haven't proven or really even SAID ANYTHING. I've never seen someone with such an arrogant and elitist attitude who can't back up ANYTHING they say!

 

[Poop-Loops]

The difference between me smoking a cigarette near you and you pissing on me is motive. I'm just trying to have a good smoke while you're trying to get to me personally by pissing on me. That's a difference IMHO. What, you think smokers are out to get you and everytime someone lights one up next to you he's thinking "yea I'll piss that guy off by smoking next to him, that'll show him"?

If you dont like being near people who smoke then dont stay near them. And as far as your "then would it be ok if I decide to smack you in the face if you light one up next to me" comment goes, I would say give it your best shot but be ready to get whooped more than once if you're going to do so each time, and be ready to accept someone beating you up if you're going to throw the first punch.

Hey man, I was just pissing in the air. That you were there isn't my fault.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Why does it seem like whenever this comes up that few non-smokers are interested in compromising?

What makes you think few non-smokers are interested in compromising? I think the whole idea behind moving smoking away from the common areas of restaurants, bars, clubs, et al, is so that both smokers and non-smokers can enjoy them. Non-smokers aren't trying to impose clean air on anyone; they're just trying to have some for anyone who chooses to have it.

 

[vegaas]

What started out as an interesting topic has devolved into dreg. I find the pompous attitude of some non smokers to be unbelievably sad. I am not talking about those who support the smoking ban, I am talking about those who have comments about the intelligence of and mortality of smokers.

As for the original topic, this could have been so much more than what it has become.

For example, what about Habeas Corpus? I find it appalling that this law was past. Where is the reaction?

Also what about the Port Security Act that had the Unlawfull Internet Gaming Act put in at the last minute so that no one could debate it? It was a sleezey way to pass a bill that most do not want, and is very bizarre in what is allowed and what is not.

These are real freedoms that are being taken away, and America doesnt care.

Like the bumper sticker says, "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

 

[Poop-Loops]

Compromise what? You are making me breathe in Death. I don't go up to you and try to take you wallet, but then propose a compromise where you get to keep half your money.

 

[Sonic_Death]

Just to throw it out there since it was stated, Habeas Corpus was thrown out the window the second Bush became president. Especially with the new Acts and Bills he has been passing.

 

[mike_v_s]

Just to throw it out there since it was stated, Habeas Corpus was thrown out the window the second Bush became president. Especially with the new Acts and Bills he has been passing.

Hooray! Politics! This is awesome! When did the rules change!? Oh, wait.....

Poop: The compromise that has been stated several times in this thread is the inclusion of a completely separate "smoking only" section, should the business owner decide to incur the cost. No need to go overboard.

Mike

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

The question about the smoking section is whether it will be so well ventilated (forced ventilation) that it poses no harm to workers, since this is largely a workplace safety issue. If it doesn't pose any harm, then who cares.

 

[FrigginChris]

i see no problem with a properly ventilated smoking section.

i've never actually been in one... most places the sections consist of little more than an imaginary line between two sides of a room

 

[karrot-x]

Does anyone know the answers to my two previous questions?

1. What about businesses like Hookah Bars? Could you open up a Cigarette bar?

2. How will it affect the environment if all the smokers in America were forced to smoke outside? How much pollution would happen?

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

1. What about businesses like Hookah Bars? Could you open up a Cigarette bar?

Some places that allow them have provisions for these kinds of establishments. Some may not, I am not really sure.

2. How will it affect the environment if all the smokers in America were forced to smoke outside? How much pollution would happen?

Uhh, where does it go now? If it is some kind of ventilation, then it is being pumped outside. If there is no ventilation, most of it is getting outside (some is absorbed). Unless they use something that actually traps the cigarette smoke then almost all of it gets outside anyway.

 

[karrot-x]

Some places that allow them have provisions for these kinds of establishments. Some may not, I am not really sure.

Well if they ban public smoking, how do you smoke in a Hookah Bar? This is what I'm asking. Why would they only ban smoking in a regular bar?

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Well if they ban public smoking, how do you smoke in a Hookah Bar? This is what I'm asking. Why would they only ban smoking in a regular bar?

I think the only reason they gave as far as I know is that a cigar bar would definitely be put out of business by it. I guess it is because the only way the establishment makes money is by selling and allowing smoking of cigars etc, whereas a bar generally makes it's money off of alcohol sales (I haven't seen many, if any bars that cell cigarettes where I've lived).

 

[FireBug]

That's common-sense and common decency.

Thank you! SMASH, you just summed up the entire arguement in two words. It's time common decency became more common.

As for the ban: I see the perfect solution along the lines of a separate filtered/ventilated room. A little hazard pay for servers who spend an unproportionate amount of time in the smoking room. A license, maybe even a fee to run a strictly smoking bar, and moderate fines for the uncooperative.

If it comes down to clubs/bars losing business in the short run and being unable to cooperate by installing a filtration system, then that is what a loan is for. Take your business proposal to the bank with a few charts and graphs and facts. Dress nicely and do not smell of smoke. Who knows? You might make some friends at the bank who will make their way over to your now respectable club. If a club flops, it's not going to be because of some new law or ban or minor regulation. It's going to be caused by lousy business practices. If you are willing to accept more money, then you should be willing to accomodate more people.

For SMASH: I see you like to enjoy cigars. I'm surprised some ignoramus with a cig in his mouth hasn't tried to blow smoke up your arse yet. It could be the threat of tasting their own foot.

For Fat Cat: Dude, will you please bite the bullet and do your own research since you seem so bent on seeing it.

And finally, Happy Halloween!

 

[morf]

Hey man, I was just pissing in the air. That you were there isn't my fault.

Yeah, and I was just swingin my fist around, that you were in the way isn't my fault either

 

[morf]

Otherwise legal activities. There have been laws against poisoning work and public places for decades if not centuries. So too laws against assault and destruction of property.

They are finally being wholly enforced.

Now if they could just create new laws for reading comprehension and logic.





He has no such right to allow it. See above. He has no right to allow assault either. Same thing.



I fully support people smoking anything they please in *private*. Bars and restaurants are not private, and never were. They are public places during operating hours and always were. They must uplhold workplace and public safety and always had to, just not under threat of enforcement as they are now.

The legislators have made the mistake of confusing people into thinking these so-called "bans" are done under new laws. They are not. The fines might be newly defined, but the freedom from assault and posioning was always a right of everyone.

While I agree public places should be safe, this is a bar we're talking about, not a roller coaster. There are tons of bars out there and there are non smoking bars out there. If you prefer those then stick to them, you willingly make the choice to put yourself in harm's way, dont come telling us smokers it's our fault for putting you in danger. If you felt so obligated to save your health you would not hesitate to not set a foot in such a place, if you do and still complain about smokers, you're nothing but a hypocrite in my book. "Oh my health is the most important thing I have but hey, when it comes to wether or not I should go have a drink with my buddies I'll gladly put my health at risk" - if you really believed smokers were slowly but surely KILLING you and there was such a HIGH RISK for your health, surely you would think of your health first and foremost and simply not go to places that allow smoking, however few there are out there.