Now I'm mad

[Poop-Loops]

So lets also ban alcohol from all bars and pubs as well because IMHO there are far more chances of a drunk killing you by smacking a beer bottle on your head than you dying of cancer due to 2nd hand smoke.

Good idea.

 

[Chunk-O-Funk]

So lets also ban alcohol from all bars and pubs as well because IMHO there are far more chances of a drunk killing you by smacking a beer bottle on your head than you dying of cancer due to 2nd hand smoke.

With that statement I think I can honestly say.

This thread is officially in the shiter.

 

[Sonic_Death]

Indeed, this is pretty much 100% over (or atleast should be).

Pretty much the same reason political threads aren't allowed in OT.

 

[Chunk-O-Funk]

yep.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

What SMASH said again.

My well-being is my own, your well-being is your own. Your "right" to smoke in any particular bar or club or whatever is actually theft of someone else's well-being who does not want it taken. You need to smoke or use the toilet or something like that, you go to the appropriate place where you don't steal your neighbor's well-being. It's simple and considerate for all.

 

[morf]

Have you smelled your clothes the morning after being in a smoking bar? Have you blown your nose and looked at the result? Have you opened your bass case and smelled your instrument, or taken your cab to a non-smoker's home for the night or tried to sell it to a non-smoker?

Still your choice to go to those places and yours alone.

That's damage of property. That's loss of resale value due to smoker's actions. That's a crime. That's not something that *might* very unlikely happen as a bottle to head is, which you'd be well-compensated for no doubt, it is sure to happen when in a smoking bar.

Again, you still choose knowingly to go there when you know such things will happen.

Why does it have to be death of cancer to count for you extemists? Where else can you go and "legally" be the victim of assault and property crimes and then have people try very unsuccessfully to argue it's ok, perhaps just because someone says it is or because you didn't die from it?

Did you just call me an extremist? lol, I dont know wether to laugh or shake my head and roll my eyes there...

You're literally arguing that it's ok for me to assault you and destroy your property as long as it doesn't cause a proven fatality latter on. WOW. Be careful what you ask for. If there's real anarchy, you might be the first to go.

Wow. First of all, if thats what you understood from my earlier statements, comments, opinions, whatever you want to call them, then you should read again. Second of all, I should be careful what I ask for? Are you threatening me on an online forum? This time I'm pretty sure I can use it:

People shouldn't even have to ask a smoker to butt out. I'd never put others in the position, not even outside on a patio, of having to ask me to put a cigar out. To force them to approach me, a risk in itself considering how utterly rude, clueless, and beligerent *some* smokers are, to me is too rude to put even a stranger in that position.

When you're in a public place where smoking is allowed it is as much your obligation as it mine so act politely. In a bar I dont blow my smoke in people's faces, I smoke away from people who seem to have a problem with the smoke, but thats as far as I will go. I consider it rude when some drunken idiot shouts blatant stupidities throughout the place, or when someone pushes me to get their drink without saying they're sorry, or when a musician tunes up with amp at full power, and the list goes on and on. Do I go rampaging or do I threaten others verbally because of it? No, I smile, shake my head, and move on.
If i feel my health is threatened then I leave.

I don't need laws - old or new - to tell me what's right. Do unto others .... don't #### with me and I won't #### with you/

My intention isnt to #### with you but if that is how you wish to perceive it, then my friend, bring it ON

 

[morf]

I never mentioned my 'ideal'. My point was that in an establishment that allows smoking, both parties have a right to be there.

Having said that I support the logic that one has a choice not to frequent those places (I try not to go to the local pub for those reasons). I hope smoking bans do come in (as they are) but would also support a comprimise with filtration systems, divided areas etc.

Now theres a rational man. He backs smoking ban because well, itll make life better for him indeed. However, he still understands that if people want to smoke in public places where it is allowed then they should be, and would prefer a compromise (smoking and non smoking rooms for example) instead of going off against smokers like we're the new nazis.

 

[morf]

What SMASH said again.

My well-being is my own, your well-being is your own. Your "right" to smoke in any particular bar or club or whatever is actually theft of someone else's well-being who does not want it taken. You need to smoke or use the toilet or something like that, you go to the appropriate place where you don't steal your neighbor's well-being. It's simple and considerate for all.

Ah Bob. Always nice to see you take sides, or should I say, the other side

My "right" to smoke isnt a "right" its a privilege. I'd like you people to understand that smokers dont believe for the most part that they have a right to smoke. As for it being theft of anyone else's well being, seeing how people choose to go to places where they know people will be smoking, they themselves choose to be in harm's way, and that is called taking your responsabilities. I would indeed like to take my smoke outside, or in the smoking room, but down here you pay 15-20 euros to get in a club and you're not allowed back in without paying again if you go outside. That, and there are no smokers only rooms. I would be more than happy to smoke away from you people, but I don't really have a choice in the matter, I either smoke and try to blow as little smoke as I can towards you, or I dont smoke for the maybe 7 hours I spend in a room drinking. My choice is made, and if you think banning smoking everywhere will solve problems, think again. Not only will bar owners, IMHO, not abide to that law, but if they do, they will lose so many clients that they'll most likely have to shut down.

 

[morf]

And along with your petty shots you choose to not reply to anything I've said. I'm the tough guy? Well, maybe. But I don't spend my time "internet dissin" at the very least.

Personally when someone says to me "be careful what you wish for because it just may happen to you" it seems to me theyre throwing threats, meaningless, empty, saddening threats yes, but threats nonetheless.

 

[morf]

*shrugs* The only one seeing red AFAIK is you here. You shot down my arguments? Well you tried, but replied on the side for each of them. The logical extension of my expressed views? What do you think is going to happen to me, I'm goin g to get beat up by some idiot who feels threatened when I blow my smoke away from him? Tough luck.

For example, you never replied each time I said that you knowingly put yourself at risk by going to those places, and thats of your own free will, knowing youre putting your own health at risk, yet you do it anyway. Haven't seen a reply from you about this, and its my main argument here.

 

[morf]

And your avatar certainly does nothing but emphasize the second line of my previous post right there, too.

 

[morf]

Yes, it is in fact the smoking that puts you at risk but you have the choice, again I'm repeating myself I guess you left out the "going knowing you're putting your health at risk there", to go, or not to go. Noone is talking about what is allowed or not allowed, only what you yourself as an individual choose to do or not to do. Again, there are far more places that do not allow smoking, including bars and pubs especially in your country, so that you dont need to go to smoking allowed bars. Saying you wouldn't have any gigs if not for going to smoking bars is a hypocritical comment to make, because its the smokers that are in the bar drinking that, ultimately, pay your bills at the end of the month. Without smokers in those bars you wouldn't have a job in that specific bar in the first place.

Or are you saying that having public places for "smokers and people who can deal with smokers only" would be an offense to your own rights? And so we should ban smoking altogether and that would solve the matter? Is that not considering smokers as lower individuals in society and making your own rights and privileges a higher standard than their own? Because noone is telling you to go to a smoking bar, there are many alternatives, and if you go there to work, those smokers are paying your night and without them you'd have no job in that place to begin with, so it is definately your CHOICE to go there or not.

 

[vindy500]

well smokers now have the choice to go into the pub or not go into the pub

 

[DbNBassist]

Ok, first of all, i went to ireland the other year, and it was lovely nice and clean, i never got ill, theyve banned smoking there. I have plenty of friends hu smoke, i dont mind it if it is them cos these are close friends hu i love dearly but if a complete stranger light up right next to me, id be abit cheesed off. I think smoking is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, it almost left me without a father and i wish ppl wouldnt infliced it on others.

I'd just like to say, masterbation in public does alot less harm than smoking in public, yet that is stil banned.

 

[morf]

But you are not "going knowing you're putting your health at risk there", you are simply going as everyone has the right to do. Everyone is allowed at the bar. Smoker or not, show up and have a ball. Everyone has the choice to go or not as they please.

What the laws prohibits is putting others at risk while there.

You may be going as someone with the right to, but you know for a fact there will be smokers and you will be putting your health at risk there, yet you STILL go. Why? Because thats your right and that is more important than your health? So if we make public bars for smokers labelled as "smokers only" you'll be against it because you won't be able to go in without putting your health at risk KNOWINGLY? Let me tell you that humans are all different, just because someone likes to smoke in a certain place where its allowed doesnt mean you should feel offended because you, as a non smoker, would put your health at risk there.

Or do you goto gay bars, and the million other "public places where you have a right to go" just because you have the right to go there? Be honest - you want to listen to good music, hang out with your pals n have a nice drink - and there are many places like that for NON smokers, leave the few ones left to us, it wont do you any harm and won't entrail the freedom of others to smoke as they choose and get together in a big place where there is also beer and music to do it.

Or lets close all the gay bars right now because you're just not gay and you dont feel your a$$h0le is safe there either

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Yes, it is in fact the smoking that puts you at risk but you have the choice, again I'm repeating myself I guess you left out the "going knowing you're putting your health at risk there", to go, or not to go. Noone is talking about what is allowed or not allowed, only what you yourself as an individual choose to do or not to do. Again, there are far more places that do not allow smoking, including bars and pubs especially in your country, so that you dont need to go to smoking allowed bars. Saying you wouldn't have any gigs if not for going to smoking bars is a hypocritical comment to make, because its the smokers that are in the bar drinking that, ultimately, pay your bills at the end of the month. Without smokers in those bars you wouldn't have a job in that specific bar in the first place.

Or are you saying that having public places for "smokers and people who can deal with smokers only" would be an offense to your own rights? And so we should ban smoking altogether and that would solve the matter? Is that not considering smokers as lower individuals in society and making your own rights and privileges a higher standard than their own? Because noone is telling you to go to a smoking bar, there are many alternatives, and if you go there to work, those smokers are paying your night and without them you'd have no job in that place to begin with, so it is definately your CHOICE to go there or not.

Again you're talking about smoking as if it was a right. It's not. It never was. People being allowed into any public place without risking physical harm is. As stated before, your rights end where others begin. You have no rights being taken away- they are merely enforcing the rights of people who don't want to get sick that were already there. Speaking from a non-smoking state, the smokers all still go to the bars. They just don't blow smoke on everyone else inside now. Now everyone can go to every bar or restaurant. Bands can play in any bar or restaurant and not have to worry about their instruments get stunk up or yellowed. No one has to get left behind because they'll go into an asthmatic fit if they're surronded by people smoking. And if the smokers can't go without their addiction for too long, they can just take a twenty foot walk outside, then come back.

 

[iplaybassguitar]

If I were to leave every bar were people are smoking, I wouldn't be able to see a single gig! Ever! I would never go to a pub or a party!

Why should a smoker have the right to smoke and a non smoker not have the right to 'not smoke' in a venue?

i didnt say you had to leave, im just saying that i think if your in a bar, smoking is part of that package, and you really have no reason to be offended when people are smoking...you dont have to leave, you just have to put up with the smoke...its not really a big deal

 

[Sonic_Death]

i didnt say you had to leave, im just saying that i think if your in a bar, smoking is part of that package, and you really have no reason to be offended when people are smoking...you dont have to leave, you just have to put up with the smoke...its not really a big deal

What I don't see is why non-smokers are told to not go to certain places if they don't want to deal with it. Would it much harder for the smokers to just go outside when they want to smoke, that way everyone can still go to all of the same places. Unless a person is smoking cigarette after cigarette or it is piss cold out, I don't think it would be bad for them to go outside.

 

[Geoff St. Germaine]

You may be going as someone with the right to, but you know for a fact there will be smokers and you will be putting your health at risk there, yet you STILL go. Why? Because thats your right and that is more important than your health? So if we make public bars for smokers labelled as "smokers only" you'll be against it because you won't be able to go in without putting your health at risk KNOWINGLY? Let me tell you that humans are all different, just because someone likes to smoke in a certain place where its allowed doesnt mean you should feel offended because you, as a non smoker, would put your health at risk there.

Or do you goto gay bars, and the million other "public places where you have a right to go" just because you have the right to go there? Be honest - you want to listen to good music, hang out with your pals n have a nice drink - and there are many places like that for NON smokers, leave the few ones left to us, it wont do you any harm and won't entrail the freedom of others to smoke as they choose and get together in a big place where there is also beer and music to do it.

Or lets close all the gay bars right now because you're just not gay and you dont feel your a$$h0le is safe there either

Your analogies are terrible. The risks you are talking about other than smoking are all things that are illegal for people to do, such as the anal rape you describe. Can you come up with a risk caused by other people to your person/property in public that isn't illegal or that the person causing the damage wouldn't be liable for?

 

[mike phillips]

when i started this forum i never thought it would put smokers against non smokers. my point was that more and more of our freedoms are being taken away. to ride in a car i have to wear a seat belt- freedom taken away. people cant smoke- freedom taken away. the list goes on. so people forget about your differances and look at the big picture.