NS Design strings on Takamine TB10 - any reason this should fail to work?

[coyote1]

Well, that didn't work. Sadly, because of the headstock on the Omni Bass as compared to my fretless, the set of strings that I have are sadly too short to try out. Sorry about that, I was looking forward to hearing it myself.

Thanks for Trying! Much appreciated.

One more question then, if you’ll permit. I’ve never strung a bass where the ‘winding’ section with its thread wrapping (called the ’silk’ I think) was sitting on the nut. It seems that, were I to purchase these strings and put them on, I might end up with that scenario. Is there an adverse consequence to that, provided that section of the string actually fit in the slot in the nut? I imagine there might be, but I’m clearly not as expert on strings as yourself.

I also imagine that tuning such a string might pull the thread-wrapped area past the nut, so that it’s sitting correctly.

 

[Jon Moody]

One more question then, if you’ll permit. I’ve never strung a bass where the ‘winding’ section with its thread wrapping (called the ’silk’ I think) was sitting on the nut. It seems that, were I to purchase these strings and put them on, I might end up with that scenario. Is there an adverse consequence to that, provided that section of the string actually fit in the slot in the nut? I imagine there might be, but I’m clearly not as expert on strings as yourself.

It's tricky. Usually a bit of the silked area is thicker than the full diameter of string (where it overlaps) for about a 1/2", so some have had success with trimming it back a bit if it's that close.

I have had the silked portion resting on the nut (a number of times), and tonally it doesn't affect it like many would think. It's not a hugely apparent tone suck, and it really only affects the open string (i.e. one note).

However, the bigger issue is how it sits in the nut. If it's where the taper is, the string is going to sit lower on the nut, which will affect the playability and cause all sorts of buzzing. Conversely, if that aforementioned thicker part of the silked string is sitting on the nut, the string is going to sit higher, and mess with your setup.

I also imagine that tuning such a string might pull the thread-wrapped area past the nut, so that it’s sitting correctly.

Yep, that happens.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I also imagine that tuning such a string might pull the thread-wrapped area past the nut, so that it’s sitting correctly.

I hope it does (and I can attest to shaving part of the silk, when needed, being perfectly doable).
Should the start of the tapered section sit right against the inner edge of the nut slot before tune-up, and get caught thereupon, you could put something stiff and thin (something like a razor blade, but not necessarily sharp nor super-thin) between string and nut, provisionally, just so the string is lifted out of the slot while it is brought to tension: after the string is tuned to pitch, remove the wafer-whatever, let the string fall inside the slot (by this time, the taper step should be past the edge of the slot) and fine-tune.

 

[coyote1]

D’addario were kind enough to work with me a bit. Seems the quest is over, for now, as none of these strings will ft.

So I will live with the Chrome flats that came with it. They do play and sound quite awesome.

 

[coyote1]

Arrrgh! Couldn’t help myself lol

I ordered a set of the D’addario Prelude 1/4 strings. The plan is to string up the A string, coil up the ‘extra’ up top, and play it for awhile to see how it sounds. The Preludes are the least expensive orchestral string by that company. They are claimed to have a ‘warm’ sound, and to work well with a bow. And they are flat wound, with multi-strand twisted cores (helicore!).

If I like it I will then clip the top and solder it to prevent unraveling. I learned this from the Christopher bass guy (Dave Smith) who did exactly that for awhile with orchestral strings (at the tailpiece end. But he now simply cuts the helicore hybrid string, and locks it into the tailpiece with an Allen set screw). And then I will install the other three the same way.

My rationale is this. I’ve seen many here, on both this side and the double bass side, say that different strings have the ability transform an instrument. Smith says the helicores make a big difference in getting the sound he wants on his instrument. And like the Christopher, the TB10 is a true archtop; while it does have a bit of reinforcement under the bridge, there is no solid block there. The arched carved top is supporting the entire tension. So that is similar to some instruments that are claimed to sound like upright. Perhaps the strings, after they are played-in a bit, will help get toward that point?

I don’t expect it to ever sound exactly like upright of course; the lack of the big box means it never can truly do that. But I don’t really lose much if this does not work out. It’s worth the experiment.

 

[coyote1]

IT’S THE STRINGS.
IT’S THE STRINGS.

and in case you missed it the first two times..... IT’S THE STRINGS!!!

I decided to start with the E string. No backtrack. I clipped and soldered the top, installed it and tuned it.

It sounds, acoustically with no amp, quite like an upright. Minus the air and bassiness of the big box, of course. But it has the string characteristics I was seeking. Played it for 15 seconds, and decided to do the other three.
It no longer sounds like a guitar. It sounds like a bass.

It sounds great.
I will let the strings settle for the night, then do a simple recording for comparison over the weekend.

 

[coyote1]

A couple interesting developments on this. First off, with the stock chrome flats the A string was, while slightly clanky, the most clear and sustaining of them. With the new orchestral strings, the D string has taken that role. I had to take out the sound post I installed just a couple days ago to get it to balance better with the others. The A string, on the other hand, is clankier and is now the least sustaining. I might have to consider installing that sound post elsewhere in the instrument to see if I can give that A string a kick.

Of course, those issues essentially vanish when I’m not playing an open string.

 

[coyote1]

Ok, here is a pair of vids. First is the stock chrome flatwounds, second is the new Preludes

 

[coyote1]

This is what it looks like from the tailpiece(s). The large ball ends of the orchestral strings fit in the tailpiece(s) effortlessly. The silk on the bridge? I’ll have to deal with it.

 

[coyote1]

Just to keep reporting, in case anyone ever wishes to follow with a B10 of their own:

There are now only three Prelude strings on the bass. The A string, despite being the most lively when the Chrome Flats were on the instrument, was kinda dead with the Preludes. So I asked D’addario if that was a possible issue with the string, and they graciously sent me a replacement. But in doing so, they chose to run with my little experiment. They sent me a 1/8 Helicore Orchestral A string. It’s physically a better fit than the 1/4 Preludes. The ball end silk ends right at the bridge, and the top silk begins two inches north of the nut.

Sound-wise, the difference is both very subtle and very significant. The sound of the string itself is only slightly brighter than the Prelude.... but the sound of the instrument when playing that string is quite different. Where the Prelude A sounded almost synth-like, the Helicore Orch A sounds like wood. It has, for lack of a better phrase, come to life. So now there is sonic continuity from E to A to D.

That said, I will also be interested to try a Helicore Hybrid A string. Just to hear the differences.

As far as mic’ing, I’m going to move the mic this weekend. Reason is that I was video recording my playing on the iPad, with no sound support whatsoever. Just the TB10, acoustically being recorded from about 18 inches away, in order to help me begin to approach consistency with my right hand technique. And it sounds great that way!
So I’m going to reposition the clip-on condenser mic so it’s over the bridge, and about three inches above the strings and pointed toward the soundboard at an angle toward a spot perhaps an inch away from the bridge. We’ll see how that works.

 

[coyote1]

I moved the mic already. Borrowing the Nadine concept, it’s stuck in the strings behind the bridge and pointing at the soundboard directly under the bridge. Even on this instrument, I have to roll off the bass freqs on the EQ! I was not anticipating that. Sounds significantly better and more accurate than the sound hole placement, and gets more volume before feedback.

 

[coyote1]

I tested the Prelude A string on the Portamento.
Not a good match.

 

[coyote1]

Ok, here’s a better comparison. Both recorded using the iPad’s internal mic.

First is the stock D’addario Chrome Flat bass guitar strings.
Recorded using the piezo into an amp, but it’s close enough to the acoustic sound to be a good representation.




Then here’s the D’addario Prelude 1/4 strings on E D G, and the 1/8 Helicore Orchestral on A.
Recorded using no sound reinforcement whatsoever, simply the instrument itself.