Just wondering how stable the strap arrangement is. Can you pizz without the thing swinging in the direction of the pluck? I see pics of people bowing while wearing it on the strap. Is this really possible?
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Double Bass NS EUB megathread
- Thread starter FretNoMore
- Start date
I have been using a SWR Baby Blue II with excellent results. The amp sounds great with the EQ flat and just doing minor adjustments from the bass. I have the one with the 2-8" Celestions, I have not tried the new one with 1-10 speaker.
Thanks Jeff, I was especially looking for something that would work best with piezos, since there are no mags on my CR4, and also for my UB with the Realist bridge foot piezo. I figure one should work for both.
gomez
gomez
I pretty much only use the piezo pickups on my CR4M, they do sound much better. I bought mine used so beggars can't be choosers! If I were buying a new one, I'd get a CR4 instead.
In short, how do you orient yourself on the neck? In the two months I have had my NS, I have become worse, not better, in my positioning and intonation. I know that steel bump is supposed to indicate where b,e,a,d, is, but I find myself searching for it, and it isn't straight on the back where it should be. It is so unlike a real DB that when I come out of the first 3 positions I am screwed.
When do you go to using your third finger on your left hand?
Does thumb position at the octave exist? What is the correct thing to do? Continue playing from the back?
?
When do you go to using your third finger on your left hand?
Does thumb position at the octave exist? What is the correct thing to do? Continue playing from the back?
?
Bear,
I don't have the 'T' model with the button on the back, so I can't really advise on your problems there. I have the CR4-M with dots on the fingerboard - purists will no doubt frown, but they're a marvellous invention as you try and find your way round the NS neck with none of the usual landmarks.
As regards thumb position, I tend to treat the NS like an over-sized BG and carry on playing from behind the neck. To be honest I don't think it matters which way you approach it - I'd suggest doing whatever seems the most comfortable to you and not worrying too much if it bends the DB technique rules a little (and I suspect thumb position wouldn't have been invented if a DB offered unrestricted access to the upper registers).
Although I notice NS promote the 'T' model as being very similar to a DB I've found you do need to adapt yourself to suit the instrument somewhat - once you've got used to it, it's great but it took me a while to work out the best approach.
Good luck!
I don't have the 'T' model with the button on the back, so I can't really advise on your problems there. I have the CR4-M with dots on the fingerboard - purists will no doubt frown, but they're a marvellous invention as you try and find your way round the NS neck with none of the usual landmarks.
As regards thumb position, I tend to treat the NS like an over-sized BG and carry on playing from behind the neck. To be honest I don't think it matters which way you approach it - I'd suggest doing whatever seems the most comfortable to you and not worrying too much if it bends the DB technique rules a little (and I suspect thumb position wouldn't have been invented if a DB offered unrestricted access to the upper registers).
Although I notice NS promote the 'T' model as being very similar to a DB I've found you do need to adapt yourself to suit the instrument somewhat - once you've got used to it, it's great but it took me a while to work out the best approach.
Good luck!
i have had to develop a technique that suits the instrument....
i have a cr5m, no thumbstop. it's definitely a hybrid, and i believe an instrument unto itself.
i've found the most comfort using the tripod and a barstool to sit on,
which keeps my leg extended enough to keep out of the way for bowing,
but also allows me to easily access the upper registers.
since there is no body to lean on, i've gotten the best results from
keeping the thumb behind the neck for the most part, only bringing it to the side of the board in the uppermost register or when using the thumb to anchor the strings on the board for chords in the second octave.
for me, the stool is optimal since there is such an accessible range without a body bout that it seems to promote bad posture when taken advantage of. i actually set the bass up rather tall as well, with the nut
well above ear level.
ymmv, it will depend alot on your height and how much of the range you find useful, but once again imho the ns calls for a technique that is as hybrid as the instrument itself.
cheers
i have a cr5m, no thumbstop. it's definitely a hybrid, and i believe an instrument unto itself.
i've found the most comfort using the tripod and a barstool to sit on,
which keeps my leg extended enough to keep out of the way for bowing,
but also allows me to easily access the upper registers.
since there is no body to lean on, i've gotten the best results from
keeping the thumb behind the neck for the most part, only bringing it to the side of the board in the uppermost register or when using the thumb to anchor the strings on the board for chords in the second octave.
for me, the stool is optimal since there is such an accessible range without a body bout that it seems to promote bad posture when taken advantage of. i actually set the bass up rather tall as well, with the nut
well above ear level.
ymmv, it will depend alot on your height and how much of the range you find useful, but once again imho the ns calls for a technique that is as hybrid as the instrument itself.
cheers
D.A.R.K. said:
I agree completely. The NS is kind of a weird instrument if you're used to DB or EBG. I love what it gives me in terms of sound and volume, but you definitely have to work out your own physical approach to it. I do use thumb position from the octave on up, but to do it, I have to stand just about completely behind the instrument and scrunch my chest against it from behind in order to steady it and get the right positioning and leverage. It's a bit hard to explain. If you just keep playing, I'm sure you'll figure out a technique and approach that works. Good luck.
I recently did some string experiments with my NS Design CR4M. The experiments were conducted with controls set to piezzo only, pizz only, and bass and treble at center.
1. Stock NS Design flatwounds: very ringy and too bright for my tastes.
2. D'Addario Hybrid mediums: not bad, but the A had too much thud followed by a bright twang. Sounded better when I turned the treble down halfway.
3. TI Spirocore weich: The E and A were very nice. Lots of growl and good fundamentals, not too bright and not too dark. My current fav for E and A. The D and G were good, too, except when playing above the octave position. They had very little sustain in those ranges.
4. D'Addario Pizzicato mediums: too bright and ringy, like the NS Design flatwounds (maybe they are the same?).
5. TI Belcanto mediums: The D and G are very nice. Warm tone, and good sustain all the way up the neck (unlike the Spiros). Bit darker than the Spiros but still nice. My current fav for D and G. The A was OK, but dark and a bit thuddy. I could live with it, but prefer the growl of the Spiro A. The E was very dark. Too dark for my tastes and not the growl that the Spiro E has. Good sustain, though. It may be an acquired taste thing.
Upshot: For now I am going with Spiro E and A, and Belcanto D and G, with the Belcanto E and A sitting in reserve -- willing to give them a second chance.
1. Stock NS Design flatwounds: very ringy and too bright for my tastes.
2. D'Addario Hybrid mediums: not bad, but the A had too much thud followed by a bright twang. Sounded better when I turned the treble down halfway.
3. TI Spirocore weich: The E and A were very nice. Lots of growl and good fundamentals, not too bright and not too dark. My current fav for E and A. The D and G were good, too, except when playing above the octave position. They had very little sustain in those ranges.
4. D'Addario Pizzicato mediums: too bright and ringy, like the NS Design flatwounds (maybe they are the same?).
5. TI Belcanto mediums: The D and G are very nice. Warm tone, and good sustain all the way up the neck (unlike the Spiros). Bit darker than the Spiros but still nice. My current fav for D and G. The A was OK, but dark and a bit thuddy. I could live with it, but prefer the growl of the Spiro A. The E was very dark. Too dark for my tastes and not the growl that the Spiro E has. Good sustain, though. It may be an acquired taste thing.
Upshot: For now I am going with Spiro E and A, and Belcanto D and G, with the Belcanto E and A sitting in reserve -- willing to give them a second chance.
Hi guys...
I'm on the search for some good strings that would make my NS-Deisgn EUB sound a bit more acoustic.
What do you use on your NS?
I've heard that D'addario should be good...
Thanks a lot...
My Kay URB is strung with Obligatos and it's equipped with both a Pierre Josephs String Charger magnetic pup and a Fishman Full Circle piezo pup. The Obli's DO work with the magnetic and sound good, but the signal is somewhat low so you have to crank the gain on your preamp, resulting in some hiss because of the signal to noise ratio. But, when you're playing with a guitar player that has 2 Vox AC30's on either side of the stage in stereo, noone notices that bit o' hiss... 
I love the Obli's thru the Full Circle! My NS WAV4 (no magnetic pups) is due to arrive on Monday and I have some Obli's just waiting to be used
Tony
I love the Obli's thru the Full Circle! My NS WAV4 (no magnetic pups) is due to arrive on Monday and I have some Obli's just waiting to be used
Tony
Thanks for sharing your experiment with us!
I'd also like to try the Belcantos D & G on my Carruthers EUB.
Best,
François
Sample sound files of 4 different string types on my NS Design CR4M. Would be interested in people's impressions.
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Tone controls set flat. 100% pizz setting and 100% piezo setting.
The strings:
TI Belcanto medium
TI Spirocore weich
Helicore Hybrid medium
Helicore Pizzicato medium
Recorded direct (no mic) to Audacity via M-Audio MobilePreUSB.
These are raw "apples to apples" comparisons. The only differences are the strings. In actual performance situations, one would apply appropirate EQ to tailor the sound to suit one's tastes. You're free to apply your own EQ to these files to see how the sound can be tailored (or not) to your tastes.
Invalid Link Removed
Tone controls set flat. 100% pizz setting and 100% piezo setting.
The strings:
TI Belcanto medium
TI Spirocore weich
Helicore Hybrid medium
Helicore Pizzicato medium
Recorded direct (no mic) to Audacity via M-Audio MobilePreUSB.
These are raw "apples to apples" comparisons. The only differences are the strings. In actual performance situations, one would apply appropirate EQ to tailor the sound to suit one's tastes. You're free to apply your own EQ to these files to see how the sound can be tailored (or not) to your tastes.
I added two files containing two performance segments of the Joe Henderson tune The Kicker by the same jazz ensemble, with the bass strung with Belcanto strings on one and with Spirocore strings on the other. The recordings were done in the same room with the same equipment. The CR4M was played through a GK MB150 with all tone setting set to flat on both the amp and bass. The recordings were made with an AT825 mic and a Zoom H4 recorder.
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I think this is a more "real world" comparison. I have made some conclusions comparing how the bass sounds in the two files. I'll reserve my thoughts after I hear from others.
Invalid Link Removed
I think this is a more "real world" comparison. I have made some conclusions comparing how the bass sounds in the two files. I'll reserve my thoughts after I hear from others.
MZH, thanks for posting those cuts. Nice playing! Between the two, I thought the Belcanto's had a richer sound, and a stronger sound (I could hear them through the mix better than the Spiro's, although perhaps you were playing stronger, it's hard to tell).
Did you still have the NS control set all the way to piezo, and all the way to pizzicato? In the first set of tests you posted, all four of the tests had that electronic NS sound, but in these two later cuts, the sound was less electronic. Perhaps due to other instruments covering up some of it, but also perhaps due to settings or recording technique? I'll be interested to hear what others think.
Did you still have the NS control set all the way to piezo, and all the way to pizzicato? In the first set of tests you posted, all four of the tests had that electronic NS sound, but in these two later cuts, the sound was less electronic. Perhaps due to other instruments covering up some of it, but also perhaps due to settings or recording technique? I'll be interested to hear what others think.
Greitzer:
Thanks for your reply (and your complement on my playing -- but I've played better: these were just rehearsals).
To answer your question, yes I had the piezo and pizzicato set 100%, just like the first set of tests, and all tone controls set flat on the amp and bass. I think the reasons the last two cuts sound less electronic are 1) I am playing through a GK MB150, which has very little high-end response (equivalent to turning down the treble control), which eliminates much of the electroinic feel, 2) the amp was also on the floor, which boosts the bass response, and 3) as you say, the other instruments cover up. If you take the first set of recordings of the raw NS sound and apply bass booist and treble cut, you will get a more natural, less electronic sound. YMMV.
I agree with you that the Belcantos sound better. There is more definition, due to the "thumpier" sound.
I think my theory on the NS is that it is like a very bright acoustic bass and darker strings make it sound better (in contrast to using brighter strings, like the Helicore Pizzicatos, on a dark bass).
The NS has tone controls, unlike an acoustic bass, so some of the string's brightness/darkeness can be tweaked. When playing the Helicore Pizzicatos, for example, the NS sounds best with the treble turned down a lot and the bass boosted a bit (plus maybe adding a touch of the arco PUs for bit more "thud"). So the choice of string for the NS is somewhat less critical due to it's tone controls.
Thanks again for listening and commenting!
Thanks for your reply (and your complement on my playing -- but I've played better: these were just rehearsals).
To answer your question, yes I had the piezo and pizzicato set 100%, just like the first set of tests, and all tone controls set flat on the amp and bass. I think the reasons the last two cuts sound less electronic are 1) I am playing through a GK MB150, which has very little high-end response (equivalent to turning down the treble control), which eliminates much of the electroinic feel, 2) the amp was also on the floor, which boosts the bass response, and 3) as you say, the other instruments cover up. If you take the first set of recordings of the raw NS sound and apply bass booist and treble cut, you will get a more natural, less electronic sound. YMMV.
I agree with you that the Belcantos sound better. There is more definition, due to the "thumpier" sound.
I think my theory on the NS is that it is like a very bright acoustic bass and darker strings make it sound better (in contrast to using brighter strings, like the Helicore Pizzicatos, on a dark bass).
The NS has tone controls, unlike an acoustic bass, so some of the string's brightness/darkeness can be tweaked. When playing the Helicore Pizzicatos, for example, the NS sounds best with the treble turned down a lot and the bass boosted a bit (plus maybe adding a touch of the arco PUs for bit more "thud"). So the choice of string for the NS is somewhat less critical due to it's tone controls.
Thanks again for listening and commenting!
bongomania
Commercial User
I agree about the Belcantos being fuller and more present in the mix; but I also felt the Spiros sounded "more acoustic", more like a quiet actual DB. So with better EQ and mixing in the PA, the Spiros might be preferable; but with only your own gear to depend on, the more aggressive Belcantos would be needed.
Of the samples, I definitely preferred the belcantos.
Any ideas how Corelli's would sound relative to your samples?
Also, what's a good B string to go with the belcantos - they only do 4 strings...
DB
Any ideas how Corelli's would sound relative to your samples?
Also, what's a good B string to go with the belcantos - they only do 4 strings...
DB
I have Belcantos on my DB. I also have a NS CR5M.
FWIW, I listened to the sound clips. I have TI Superflexibles on my NS, and the tone is remarkably similar pizz to the DIed clips posted of the Belcantos. A very fair approximation, IMO.
Why is this relevant? They cost less than half what a set of Belcantos cost!
Superflexible has a B. Even if you go with Belcanto, it would match them well.
FWIW, I listened to the sound clips. I have TI Superflexibles on my NS, and the tone is remarkably similar pizz to the DIed clips posted of the Belcantos. A very fair approximation, IMO.
Why is this relevant? They cost less than half what a set of Belcantos cost!
Superflexible has a B. Even if you go with Belcanto, it would match them well.
Very interesting. Did you have the tone controls set to flat on the NS and amp and the pickups on full pizz and piezo settings when you made the comparison to the Belcantos clips? In other words, is it an apples-to-apples comparison?
The only tone control I ever use on my NS is the magnetic/piezo pan. I think my comparison is fair.
Based on my DB experiences, the Belcanto will definitely bow better, but I would not drop $180 on a pizz string. The Superflexible will serve you fine.
