Observations from a recent metal show

[JimmyM]

i probably misled you and others regarding tracks. they weren't playing studio recordings and not actually playing. Every musician seemingly played their entire parts the entire show, and did so well.

I read an interview by the lead guitarist. He moved from a pedal board and half stacks to a midi controller and half stacks, becuase the pedal board was too complex to stomp quickly. now he has moved to where his effects are electronically controlled with the click track, so they change at the point in the song when they should. he is still playing, he just doesn't have to change things on a board. if you see the metallica video I posted, it's the same idea. players can play without having to worry about stomping pedals, that can get very complex.

Metallica’s techs do all the switching backstage. And they do plenty of it. James and Kirk have two AxeFx units each and an old fashioned AB switch because some of their songs require two banks of patches, and you can’t switch between banks without a gap in the sound.

So yeah, switching is very easy when you don’t have to do it yourself.

 

[moon-bass]

Interesting observations here all around. This thread encouraged me to post a new thread on a recent festival I attended with some very different takeaways.

 

[TonyP-]

The amped guitars of the openers sounded way better. Tate’s guitarists sounded like they were playing through AM radios. A lot depends on the sound people.

That is just it…You are now depending more on some else then you realize…Which is fine, if you have someone you really trust working with the band. Same guy from rehersal to the same guy live. I lean to having some kind of backline.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I disagree. Amps are not used for PA support. It's for the players. Unless you play very little venues like bars.

True. Amps aren’t necessarily used for PA support. But in many situations, it’s unnecessary to have amps onstage- especially on very large stages.

 

[scuzzy]

this is the venue. glad to get some new ones pop up after all the post-covid closures around here.

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[baxter_x]

True. Amps aren’t necessarily used for PA support. But in many situations, it’s unnecessary to have amps onstage- especially on very large stages.

I agree with you even if for me, amps are mandatory even on very large stages. I need to hear and feel my tone and my rig. I tried twice IEM, and it was a painful and lifeless experience. But it is le and only me. Not a truth for everyone.

 

[40Hz]

Huh? The Euro Metal bands have been doing it that way for years. If anyone, it’s the ol’ USA that’s falling behind the times.

 

[RGerhart]

Ever since I saw Periphery back in say 2015 or 2016, I've been impressed with the DI-sound, no-amps-on stage. It is waaaay more clear and you can hear all the nuances of the music. Props to bands that take this approach, and who are successful at integrating backing tracks.

 

[IanStephenson]

Now maybe no one noticed (there were people dancing to the music) or even cared other t

I play in an 80's band where we have a lot of stuff on tracks, but it is all "extras". More BV's, more keys, extra guitar parts, and the 5 of us are all playing our parts 100%, and singing...

Except on one track, which has no guitar parts, a synth bass part, and the original keys are one-finger loops. There's nothing for us to play apart from lead vocals, BV's and live drums, so everything else is on track. We basically don't play any of it - we don't fake it, or pretend - we just don't play, and the song magically comes out of the PA. Most of us weren't keen on the idea, but it was thrown in as a quick and easy way to pad the set early on... and turned out to be a massive dance floor filler.

As noted, NO ONE CARES... I'd love to drop it for a song I actually get to play on, but its one of those songs we just can't take out now.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

i probably misled you and others regarding tracks. they weren't playing studio recordings and not actually playing. Every musician seemingly played their entire parts the entire show, and did so well.

I read an interview by the lead guitarist. He moved from a pedal board and half stacks to a midi controller and half stacks, becuase the pedal board was too complex to stomp quickly. now he has moved to where his effects are electronically controlled with the click track, so they change at the point in the song when they should. he is still playing, he just doesn't have to change things on a board. if you see the metallica video I posted, it's the same idea. players can play without having to worry about stomping pedals, that can get very complex.

Thanks for your response. I hear you about having to negotiate complicated gear while performing. Some of the pedal boards I’ve seen look as complicated as as what you need to fly to the moon. Having it automated would be a huge plus.

+ 1 on Fractal Gear! Great stuff. I’ve worked with 2 guitarists with Fractal rigs and they were awesome. Our current guitarist has a Line 6 bean that is barely tolerable.

Me, after almost 50 years, I’m still trying to negotiate a volume and tone control on my PB with limited success…

And at age 70, I have to worry about moving around at the same time without running into something of somebody, let alone trying to dance on a pedal board…

 

[JimmyM]

I don’t want to hear everyone else through IEMs and I don’t want them in my monitor. And for that matter, I don’t want to hear my bass through my monitor. I want to hear my voice, maybe the other voices if I can’t hear them any other way, and that’s it.

And sure, if you’re in a touring band, if it helps to bring expenses down, it’s a great idea. But if I go to a show and the sound is bad, it’s never the fault of the amps. I’ve seen tons of shows with live loud amps where the sound was stellar. Now have I seen people blow venues out with their amps? Indeed. That is also not the fault of the amps.

 

[NeonVomit]

I don’t want to hear everyone else through IEMs and I don’t want them in my monitor. And for that matter, I don’t want to hear my bass through my monitor. I want to hear my voice, maybe the other voices if I can’t hear them any other way, and that’s it.

And sure, if you’re in a touring band, if it helps to bring expenses down, it’s a great idea. But if I go to a show and the sound is bad, it’s never the fault of the amps. I’ve seen tons of shows with live loud amps where the sound was stellar. Now have I seen people blow venues out with their amps? Indeed. That is also not the fault of the amps.

I mean, don't get me wrong, having amps used properly makes the entire experience more visceral and better. Maybe the sound isn't as clear, but you feel the music a lot more.

But the way things are, if it's a choice between a band sticking with the cost and logistics of hiring out and transporting amps and not being able to tour, vs. ditching them and being able to tour, well... I think you know which direction they go.

 

[MrClassicMetal]

I guess it depends on the act. A few weeks ago I watched a local 80s band play where the bass player gripped his bass with his left while he walked down the stairs and onto the dance floor to take selfies with others… during this time, not a visible note was played nor an audible note lost, it sounded just like the recording!
Er um, maybe it was.

What's the name of that bassist, Nikki Sixx?

 

[baxter_x]

I don’t want to hear everyone else through IEMs and I don’t want them in my monitor. And for that matter, I don’t want to hear my bass through my monitor. I want to hear my voice, maybe the other voices if I can’t hear them any other way, and that’s it.

And sure, if you’re in a touring band, if it helps to bring expenses down, it’s a great idea. But if I go to a show and the sound is bad, it’s never the fault of the amps. I’ve seen tons of shows with live loud amps where the sound was stellar. Now have I seen people blow venues out with their amps? Indeed. That is also not the fault of the amps.

I can't agree more with you Jimmy. That is exactly word for word my experience too.

 

[Windreaper]

If you can get a result almost as good as the real thing but with a fraction of the hassle and expense, it only makes sense to do it. It's not the 80's anymore. We all gotta do what we gotta do in order to survive.

Almost all the guitarists I play with have Kemper/Fracta/Quad Cortex. I'm using my Boss GT1B more and more, and my next investment will probably be upgrading it to a GT1000 Core to run through a really quality DI box, or even a Quad Cortex as well. It just makes life easier (and much, MUCH cheaper) for everyone involved.

Not only as good, but better. Lower stage volume translates into a cleaner mix in the house. Also, if you know how to roll mix-ready tones, all the sound guy needs to do is to apply a little corrective EQ.

Can recommend the Boss units for bass. Been gigging the GTK Core for over a year, recently bought a GX100 for the more flexible signal path. Don't need an expensive DI with a line-level source, btw.

 

[perfektspace6]

Very few people in the rock/metal world actually mime to tracks (except for Motley Crue and KISS, who've been caught red-handed on a number of occasions recently. I'm sure it happens, but far less often than you're insinuating it does). August Burns Red are outstanding musicians, and they sound as tight as they do live because they are very skilled and practice like crazy.

Many bands use expansive symphonic and choir arrangements, or specific sound effects, and have those on a click track. They may not use them enough to justify having a keyboardist/samples person in the band or bring along an entire symphonic orchestra and full choir on tour (which is, uh, kind of expensive), however, so a click track where they get triggered automatically again makes life easier for everyone, while giving the full experience of the music to the live audience. This is not 'miming'.

Based on what I have seen, I think this is a good characterization. Hard to tell sometimes but seeing a band like Opeth, that has a keyboard player, but could very well be triggering (or whatever the term) samples of additional strings etc. This has been going on for decades. As long as the bands are actually playing their instruments and singing the words live I don't really care about the embellishments.

So if the bands the OP mentioned have no pedals boards does that mean there is a program (Fractal was mentioned) that is synced to a click for every song that adjusts effects and other parameters for the entire set? (OP answered this a few posts above while I was typing. The answer is yes.)

 

[scuzzy]

So if the bands the OP mentioned have no pedals boards does that mean there is a program (Fractal was mentioned) that is synced to a click for every song that adjusts effects and other parameters for the entire set?

yes, that is exactly what some bands use. Ableton Live is a used a lot in this regard. but my understanding, with some knowledge and the proper gear, most DAW's can be used in this fashion. I don't exactly know how it works, but the computer programs triggers the changes in the processor via midi and it goes along with the click, so it changes exactly when needed in the songs.

 

[NeonVomit]

Not only as good, but better. Lower stage volume translates into a cleaner mix in the house. Also, if you know how to roll mix-ready tones, all the sound guy needs to do is to apply a little corrective EQ.

Can recommend the Boss units for bass. Been gigging the GTK Core for over a year, recently bought a GX100 for the more flexible signal path. Don't need an expensive DI with a line-level source, btw.

Yeah I mean last gig I just ran it through my SansAmp and it worked pretty well! Had an amp on stage effectively for monitoring purposes, but I could work just as well with IEMs.

 

[NeonVomit]

As long as the bands are actually playing their instruments and singing the words live I don't really care about the embellishments.

Yeah that's a big thing - if you can use technology to achieve your artistic vision and aren't misleading the audience, then any naysayers can get in the sea, as far as I'm concerned. I get the feeling that many of those who go on about it in a negative way are usually just intimidated by how tight and talented young bands are these days, and the amount of work they'd have to put in to just catch up. Tale as old as time.

 

[scuzzy]

Based on what I have seen, I think this is a good characterization. Hard to tell sometimes but seeing a band like Opeth, that has a keyboard player, but could very well be triggering (or whatever the term) samples of additional strings etc. This has been going on for decades. As long as the bands are actually playing their instruments and singing the words live I don't really care about the embellishments.

So if the bands the OP mentioned have no pedals boards does that mean there is a program (Fractal was mentioned) that is synced to a click for every song that adjusts effects and other parameters for the entire set? (OP answered this a few posts above while I was typing. The answer is yes.)

this is a taste of it.