Observations from a recent metal show

[Kijuer]

This old guy remembers when Geddy quit using amps. His live sound improved tremendously. He finally sounded as great live as he did in the studio.
The same with Tony Levin.

Well, not exactly. He always had an Orange AD200B in his rack system, along with Avalon U5s and Tech21 RBIs/RPMs, all combined on the mixing desk. It was just off-stage. No cabs anyway, that's correct.

Same for Dusty Hill: amps in an off-stage rack and cab in an iso-box.

Even John Petrucci has all his gear off-stage, amps, Fractal FX units and miked cabs, just because they're not on stage it doesn't mean no amps at all.

 

[Microbass]

Salud!

At this point, I don't think anyone in an audience would give a damn about amps or not amps. Digital modeling sounds perfect live-wise.

I disagree here - but not necessarily the bands fault.

Pre-pandemic I saw Jimmy Eat World, one of my favourite bands of that sort of genre. This was the second time, first time at an out door festival and they were great. Second time was at a venue that's generally pretty good for sound. They had acoustic drums, but bass and guitars were all direct to PA. The mix sounded so dry and off, almost as if I was listening to them in the bar in the next building.
Similar for other bands I've seen go ampless, it's ranged from everything sounding "meh", to fine, but with something missing.

One thing I'll say about bass players - while we travelled the UK in the van last year, I saw a *lot* of bands. Mostly in small-medium venues, a couple of large venues, and an outdoor festival. I can count on 1 hand how many players had a great tone that really added something to the bands soundscape. A few who were over the top with pedals and being obsessed with using their own amp etc that they were barely able to cut through the mix. So many just didn't even care about their sound at all.

OTOH, it does seem to be getting more popular in the metal scene. Anyone I know in that respect tend to be on the nerdier side of being gear buffs and they really get that they don't need a Mesa or Marshall full stack and an 8x10 combined with the biggest available drum kit to sound metal.

 

[knumbskull]

Is it any worse than bands using stacks of unplugged cabs as set dressing?

 

[baxter_x]

One thing I'll say about bass players - while we travelled the UK in the van last year, I saw a *lot* of bands. Mostly in small-medium venues, a couple of large venues, and an outdoor festival. I can count on 1 hand how many players had a great tone that really added something to the bands soundscape. A few who were over the top with pedals and being obsessed with using their own amp etc that they were barely able to cut through the mix. So many just didn't even care about their sound at all.

IMO the main problem is those dudes willing to use their huge amount of pedals and stuff without mastering it.
I'm of those who refuse to use ANY extra gear if it's not justifed. I end up with a simple rig: Bass, amp and cab. And that's it.
And my tone is good and eases things for the soundman whatever the venue. I also check before the show what cab I should bring. If it's a little/mid venue, I don't even think about bringing my 810. I'll use my 212.

Tone/sound issues onstage a very related to brainless/incompetent musicians IMO and IME.

 

[JimmyM]

I think it’s silly to think that the only way to do things is one way.

 

[scuzzy]

What was the venue?
Judging by the second band and headliner, I'm assuming something theater sized?
More metal bands are going this route since it reduces touring costs significantly, and is an easy setup. Even big, signed bands that have been around for decades can end up with a 30 minute slot. So lugging around a bunch of gear doesn't make a ton of sense.
Unfortunately for smaller bands like mine, the venues are a gamble. You never know what kind of PA they have, or if the sound guy even cares. I've had venues say everyone is getting the same setup, same mix, no in ears. I've had venues with PA that is only for the vocals and nothing else.

The red flag in St Louis. 1000 person venue. Fairly new. Not bad. Decent sound system. I'd go back for sure.

That is not what is happening here. They are using tracks in addition to live performance. I'm curious if they are using wedges or IEM.

Iem's for everyone. No wedges.

How are you certain it’s not? Exactly what’s going on? Only the bands know, I’ve seen plenty of pantomiming “in concert “ in all styles of music.

How can you be certain about that for ANY live music you see?

So this was acoustic drumkit but DIed instruments?
Electric drums, DI instruments?

A stage performance to prerecorded tracks ?


I have heard no amps and IEM is a thing these days.
Never ever done it that way but yeehah sounds like a great show

Acoustic kits. I just know no amps on stage. Tracks varied greatly from band to band. 1&3 were minimal on tracks.

 

[gstaats]

Definitely agree with @JimmyM - there isn't a one size fits all approach. The band I'm currently in has played a variety of gigs. Some, I've went ampless from my pedalboard and called it day. Monitoring/FOH was great. Others, you've gotta have an amp to hear yourself as monitoring/soundguy wasn't capable. Haven't gigged IEM yet - but have had full rehearsals with IEMs. Definitely better on the ears. With good equipment, things can be heard much better too. When using IEMs, we had a full compliment of mics, even for those who didn't sing so we could talk. Drums mic'd. Guitar amps mic'd and bass was DI from the pedalboard. I didn't find anything lacking while using IEMs as I do a ton of practice with cans or iems. Going ampless really depends on the use case.

 

[brianrost]

I don't mind if a performance sounds like the recording, but it should not be the goal.

I have to agree, I'm more interested in the exact opposite...recordings that sound like a live band.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I have heard amazing sounding ampless bands. But to be fair, I’ve been to shows where there were no amps and it sounded like crap. Geoff Tate’s Mindcrime, being one. The amped guitars of the openers sounded way better. Tate’s guitarists sounded like they were playing through AM radios. A lot depends on the sound people.

 

[Hummergeist]

Let night I went to a local metal show. I was introduced to a Scottish metal group, Bleed from within. They were great. Not new, but new to American soil touring.

Takeaways from their set.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tight, clean, very tastefully done tracking/triggering
• Bassist playing a beautiful high end ibanez 5 string soundgear, 34" scale

Devil wears Prada went next.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tracks were a bit overdone and obvious
• Sound mix was strange
• Bassist played Dingeall D-Roc 4&5, but his tone was very muffled.
• Guitarists played Dunable and Reverend!

Headliner August burns red

• Not an amp to be seen
• Great sound, tight, clean
• Kiesel basses, and one guitarist. Lead guitar had beautiful gold metal flake Ibanez

No amps at all. I didn't see a pedal board either. I think they ran there entire sets through processors (likely fractal), controlled by midi/computers. They interacted, played skillfully, focused on the crowd, and no one knew the better.

This is the present and the future. Flame on, old farts!

I like this. As I just posted on the one about 'selling my pedals', I like to have a software based setup. if it's a sequenced set with a timeline, I don't bring anything to stomp on, not even a MIDI controller, because all the effect changes are automated. Incredibly low maintenance, and ideal for short gigs and small venues.

 

[scuzzy]

I like this. As I just posted on the one about 'selling my pedals', I like to have a software based setup. if it's a sequenced set with a timeline, I don't bring anything to stomp on, not even a MIDI controller, because all the effect changes are automated. Incredibly low maintenance, and ideal for short gigs and small venues.

I believe that all the bands did exactly this. there wasn't even a midi pedal I could see, and the members of ABR switched instruments and moved all over the stage constantly.

 

[Pyrat]

Nothing is new. I miss the future. Time to die.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Let night I went to a local metal show. I was introduced to a Scottish metal group, Bleed from within. They were great. Not new, but new to American soil touring.

Takeaways from their set.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tight, clean, very tastefully done tracking/triggering
• Bassist playing a beautiful high end ibanez 5 string soundgear, 34" scale

Devil wears Prada went next.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tracks were a bit overdone and obvious
• Sound mix was strange
• Bassist played Dingeall D-Roc 4&5, but his tone was very muffled.
• Guitarists played Dunable and Reverend!

Headliner August burns red

• Not an amp to be seen
• Great sound, tight, clean
• Kiesel basses, and one guitarist. Lead guitar had beautiful gold metal flake Ibanez

No amps at all. I didn't see a pedal board either. I think they ran there entire sets through processors (likely fractal), controlled by midi/computers. They interacted, played skillfully, focused on the crowd, and no one knew the better.

This is the present and the future. Flame on, old farts!

As an aside: are three-word-names mandatory in modern metal?

 

[Smooth_bass88]

when there is sufficient PA support, amplifiers are unnecessary

 

[baxter_x]

when there is sufficient PA support, amplifiers are unnecessary

I disagree. Amps are not used for PA support. It's for the players. Unless you play very little venues like bars.

 

[E2942]

The important question:

Was the Metal Heavy?

 

[IanStephenson]

That may be the future for big shows but small bands will need amps still.

It's not the future of big shows - it's how big shows are done, and the payoff for small bands is even bigger. Big bands have budgets, space and crew to run their equipment, and can crank a stack in a stadium if they want to.

Small bands need to fit the gear in the car, get set up in 15 mins, worry about feedback, and keep levels down in confined spaces. Having everything in a few small racks, getting the same sound in your ears every night, and giving the FoH a chance to be half decent is priceless, but most of all the big bands don't have to carry their own cab out of the car back into their house at 1am...

I'd probably play a one-off gig with amps again just for the novelty but dragging it out every weekend... never again.

 

[Koshchei]

Let night I went to a local metal show. I was introduced to a Scottish metal group, Bleed from within. They were great. Not new, but new to American soil touring.

Takeaways from their set.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tight, clean, very tastefully done tracking/triggering
• Bassist playing a beautiful high end ibanez 5 string soundgear, 34" scale

Devil wears Prada went next.

• Not an amp to be seen
• Tracks were a bit overdone and obvious
• Sound mix was strange
• Bassist played Dingeall D-Roc 4&5, but his tone was very muffled.
• Guitarists played Dunable and Reverend!

Headliner August burns red

• Not an amp to be seen
• Great sound, tight, clean
• Kiesel basses, and one guitarist. Lead guitar had beautiful gold metal flake Ibanez

No amps at all. I didn't see a pedal board either. I think they ran there entire sets through processors (likely fractal), controlled by midi/computers. They interacted, played skillfully, focused on the crowd, and no one knew the better.

This is the present and the future. Flame on, old farts!

It's just the way of it, nothing to flame about. Though, some bands still prefer amps on stage. In the last year, the obvious hold-outs were Porcupine Tree and Opeth.

My opinion? As long as you get the tone and feel that you expect out of your instrument, it doesn't matter what you play through.

 

[AndyLES]

What was the venue?
Judging by the second band and headliner, I'm assuming something theater sized?
More metal bands are going this route since it reduces touring costs significantly, and is an easy setup. Even big, signed bands that have been around for decades can end up with a 30 minute slot. So lugging around a bunch of gear doesn't make a ton of sense.
Unfortunately for smaller bands like mine, the venues are a gamble. You never know what kind of PA they have, or if the sound guy even cares. I've had venues say everyone is getting the same setup, same mix, no in ears. I've had venues with PA that is only for the vocals and nothing else.

Bingo.

Worse still is going ampless in a small club that has a PA with poor coverage - people next to the stage get that "empty hole in the middle" vibe when a band doesn't have backline.

 

[baxter_x]

It's just the way of it, nothing to flame about. Though, some bands still prefer amps on stage. In the last year, the obvious hold-outs were Porcupine Tree and Opeth.

My opinion? As long as you get the tone and feel that you expect out of your instrument, it doesn't matter what you play through.

Totally!