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Official ATK Club

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You seem to propose a spectrum of woodiness to beefiness.

Hmm. More like woodiness to sterility...though adjectives for sound are always chancy. ;)

They use ash as the body wood. Would you say that they could have used any other wood and the end sound result would be very similar?
Pretty much, especially with that same neck, but a large body of dense ash, if it contributes much of anything at all, accentuates the "clean power" of the ATK.

I'm no luthier, nor am i really familiar with how different woods will sound. someone say my koa 750 the other day, and after saying it was beautiful asked if the koa veneer made any difference in the tone. I had no idea. It definitely sounds different from my 305, but there are some other differences between the basses that could contribute to the change in sound.

Sure, like the heavier five-string neck, etc.

It's not the laminate. The reason that ornamental laminates are so common on active basses with high-mass bridges is because the bodies have become less important in how the instrument sounds. Skinned top laminates are considered by luthiers and advanced players as tonal negatives in common solid-body guitars, as an example, as they just amount to more layers of thick, sound-damping paint and glue and different wood that is not a native part of the body blank. Look at it this way: With a 750, you've taken a perfectly good, two-piece ash body and mashed a piece of plywood on top of it. Are three layers of dissimilar woods (maple, walnut and koa) and three layers of glue going to improve its resonance? Of course not, it would tend to dampen it and mute its resonances, making it a deader body, to the extent it did anything. Imagine adding all that on the top of a solid-top classical guitar, as an exaggerated example to demonstrate the premise.

But it doesn't matter on the 750 because the body is more isolated from the tonal equation by the presence of a massive bridge and heavy, rigid neck anyway.

That's why you see these $5000 basses made up of all these laminations of dissimilar but highly rigid woods and layers of exotic spalted whatnot on top. "Spalted," BTW, is just a euphemism for rotted, mildewed deadfall salvaged from the forest floor or old riverbeds. It's not tonewood, it's refuse. Because the rotting patterns look interesting, they inject it with resin or something to stabilize the wood enough to cut it and finish it. It's 100% ornamental and contributes nothing positive to the tonal qualities of the instrument -- but that no longer matters.

Some years ago I wrote a very long post on another board about the engineering and physical principles that determine sustain and how they were antithetical to what is perceived as good native tone in a guitar or bass. Maximum string sustain would be obtained by suspending the guitar string in a vacuum between two witness points of infinite density and infinite mass, then plucking it at the midpoint. The string would vibrate ("sustain") until the energy was transferred as heat from the flexing of the metal, and that would take a while. It also wouldn't sound like anything as we are in a vacuum and there's no resonator, like a guitar's soundboard, consuming that string's energy to generate sound.

So, the trick isn't so much to get sustain -- you just put the string between hard witness points rigidly suspended. I can remember about forty years ago when this quest for sustain and string power was producing experimental solid-body guitars using materials like aluminum and concrete (!). Sure, they sustained, but they sounded awful. Basses were more interesting, and this was when high-mass bridges and roundwound strings started arriving.

Modern basses are the grandchildren of those instruments.

Because clean fundamental string tone in bass frequencies "cut," some bassists were very attracted to this as a possibility for a more viable solo instrument. There were more metal and exotic materials used and we saw graphite necks, metal nuts, huge metal bridge assemblies, ultra-hard stainless frets, etc., etc. That thin, sharp sound that guitarists hated back then was more useful in lower notes.

If you wanted exotic sounds, that's what the new electronics were for -- stomps, onboard preamps, DSP, MIDI, exotic amps, etc. The electric bass was becoming less of an analog of the upright classical double bass than it was a pure note generator in an electronic process. This has remained the big division among basses and bass players for a couple of decades now.

With a '50s P at one end and the ultra-rigid graphite and metal active at the other, the ATK is somewhere in the middle, but its appearance is more traditional than its native tone.
 
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High mass bridges don't add "tone," but retain that power, sustain and clarity of the fundamental by reducing the transfer of the string's vibrational energy into the body. That's how they work, and that's their objective. It's a direct tradeoff between power/sustain and the "woody" tonal complexity generated by the string's energy transferred through the body. You can't have both. So, these modern basses sound somewhat sterile compared to, say, a '50s Precision with a low-mass bridge.

It always surprises me see how many people on TB don't know this.

In modern active basses with massive bridges (such as the ATK), the body is pretty much reduced to an ornamental rigid platform for the electronics, which is why so many modern high-end basses are mainly lavish joinery exercises in fancy non-tonewoods.

The rigidity of a heavy, laminated neck and a heavy, dense body also accentuate these qualities. The ATK's powerful sound is mainly the electronics and very efficiently conserved string energy. That the tone "lacks something" is unavoidable.

Ah ok, that does make alot of sense actually, I was thinking of it more in terms of since the ATKs bridge was so substantial that it would transfer the string energy into the body more efficiently, but that's a little silly cos obviously that string energy has to go somewhere, and if it's not being soaked up by a high mass bridge it is by the rest of the body. Obviously you can lose efficiency by having saddles that aren't locked into place by some means like the small grooves on either side of the ATK bridge, but I'm sure you get low mass bridges that are also efficient nowadays if this trade-off in tone exists.

I still don't find it too hard getting the woodyness out of my ATK with the bassculture pickup though, and especially out of my new Jazz pickup in the neck, it's not exactly as woody as you can get a trad. Fender design, but it's still pretty woody which is nice.
 
Totally agree with you here, but can you order it in the US? It's available in Canada though. Only the ATK 300 4-strings is the one you can get in the US with ash/black.

I don't really know, I'm in UK and you can find it in places like:

Invalid Link Removed

Any more comments on the B string on these basses? Good definition?
What about the necks? Too chunky?

:hyper:
 
I was thinking of it more in terms of since the ATKs bridge was so substantial that it would transfer the string energy into the body more efficiently, but that's a little silly cos obviously that string energy has to go somewhere, and if it's not being soaked up by a high mass bridge it is by the rest of the body.

Mainly what it's doing is staying in the string longer with a brighter, less complex tone, which is the whole point. The heavier bridge is passing less energy to the body. Being denser and more rigid, it's just resisting the string's vibration and letting less of it pass through compared to something like a '54 Precision's bridge.

Obviously you can lose efficiency by having saddles that aren't locked into place by some means like the small grooves on either side of the ATK bridge, but I'm sure you get low mass bridges that are also efficient nowadays if this trade-off in tone exists.
That's a second point, "wastage," where the string energy is not staying more in the string or being absorbed by a tonally-efficient body producing pretty sound, but merely being consumed by poor mechanical connections, wave cancellation, dead spots, etc. Yuk.

When you see a lot of that, you just have a lousy instrument. :spit:

Actually, though, what keeps the saddles in place is the downward pressure of the string. The grooves usually don't do much except align the strings when restringing or setting up. You'll notice the ATK bridge only has two grooves for the whole eight screws.
 
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I'll go for natural with black pickguard, I think it looks awesome!
Totally agree with you here
Can you believe this one? I love it!

3251194209_1708c1956f.png
 
Mainly what it's doing is staying in the string longer with a brighter, less complex tone, which is the whole point. The heavier bridge is passing less energy to the body. Being denser and more rigid, it's just resisting the string's vibration and letting less of it pass through compared to something like a '54 Precision's bridge.


That's a second point, "wastage," where the string energy is not staying more in the string or being absorbed by a tonally-efficient body producing pretty sound, but merely being consumed by poor mechanical connections, wave cancellation, dead spots, etc. Yuk.

When you see a lot of that, you just have a lousy instrument. :spit:

Actually, though, what keeps the saddles in place is the downward pressure of the string. The grooves usually don't do much except align the strings when restringing or setting up. You'll notice the ATK bridge only has two grooves for the whole eight screws.

Ah ok, I understand now. I thought that since the saddles are pretty tight two would be all that necessary to keep them in place if that sideways movement made any difference, I'm sure on the Badass website it seems to boast that the design means there is very little sideward movement and this increased efficiency, could be a load of BS on a part of my ****** memory though.

I assume, if like you say efficiency is due to downward pressure, that this is why string through has more sustain then bridge stringing? I've not really A/Bed it or anything, but does string through also mean higher tension too? Also, since string through stringing obviously means that the strings are in contact with the body, does that mean that any more resonance is transferred to the body? Or since the string for all intents and purposes doesn't move does it not make any difference of transferral of string energy to the body?

Can you believe this one? I love it!

3251194209_1708c1956f.png

It's a shame they don't make that finish anymore, mines the same finish and it's real pretty, looks pretty horrible in some lighting but in nice lighting like in that photo it's gorgeous.
 
Just bought an ATK and i'm in love...Can i join the club now?

Picked it up yesterday at GC for $220 ATK 3EX1.

Couple questions- The bass is black on black and i'd really like to convert the hardware to all black. Has anyone done this and can you offer any suggestions on where to get parts? Also im seeing some posts about Bass culture pickups. Are there any dealers for them in the states or do i just need to email them? Thanks!
 
Here's Link Removed. I'll do some better ones when I have some decent light. :hmm:

wow, thats nice. How was the setup? After I bought my 750koa, I went back and purchased a atk300 (The black one with the engraved pickguard). It was so jacked up out of the box I had to send it back...If my next one comes back that bad, Im thinking of picking up one of the naturals. Besides being of Kirstie Ally-ian weight, what are your initial impressions?
 
How was the setup?
It was surprisingly good on both of them. I didn't have to do anything to the 750 and the 700 needed just a little neck relief after a few hours in this humidity.
After I bought my 750koa, I went back and purchased a atk300 (The black one with the engraved pickguard). It was so jacked up out of the box I had to send it back...If my next one comes back that bad, Im thinking of picking up one of the naturals.
It would never occur to me to send back an otherwise good instrument due to setup. I assume I will have to redo it after it's been through that much shipping, but the 700 and the 750 appear to be inspected and set up here in the US, in the case of these two, about six weeks ago. Dunno about the 300s. :hmm:
Besides being of Kirstie Ally-ian weight, what are your initial impressions?
Fair frets (a couple of high ones I had to take down, #3 and #14), three-piece body of so-so ash that's certainly not "light ash," zero birdseye on the fretboard, perfect overall centerline alignment, a few dings on the hardware, better wiring than the 750 (though less complex) and they didn't strip the battery cover screws on this one as they did on the 750 -- though I did have to loosen the battery lead wires wrapped up in the control cavity in order to get enough slack to get the battery out.

Head laminate matches the quality of the body's more closely than the 750's did, sounds OK with the exception of the static from the coated Elixir strings not grounding your fingers properly.

That bat switch looks like it would last about ten minutes in the real world before getting snapped off by something. Really dumb placement and a very fragile-looking switch, I must say. :hmm:

I like the looks a bit more than the 750, but not as much as the amber-finished, natural ash 300s.

Given the weight, though, I don't imagine I'll ever really play the thing.
 
I shouldve been more specific! :smug: When I said it was "jacked-up" I meant not only was the setup atrocious (the bass looked as though it had been assembled by a 5 year old--the neck bolts werent even seated all the way) but there were scratches on the pick guard by the truss wheel. This was by all means a damaged instrument that MF sent out.

In any event, thanks for your impressions of the 700. I always enjoy reading your thoughts!
 
That's not a straight natural? Given the lighting, it's hard to tell.

Looks alot like mine photographs, it's quite similar to straight natural, just the lacquer on the body has a honey like tint to it, kinda similar to the effect you get on alot of the maple necks on older Fenders.

1996 made in Japan ATK 305 :)

My ATK is a 96 Japanese 300 and the board has alot more to it then that, kinda odd...
 
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