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Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club

#4,521
DaveAceofBass said:
I have a question: I have a BB2 I recently got used. I'm confused on the horn dial on the back. Which way adds the horn, and which way cuts? It seems that rolling it counterclockwise increases the horn level, and clockwise cuts it...this seems counterintuitive so I wanted to make sure I know what I'm doing.

BTW, if anyone is selling a Super Midget please PM me...I want it.
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CCW the x-over point is 3k Hz. CW the x-over point is 10k Hz. So CCW the horn comes more into play and you get a full range hifi sound. CW the 12" driver is mostly in play so you have a more old school sound. It's like two cabinets in one (plus everything in between). you should read up on their site. Tons of info on that specific cabinet plus lots of stuff on sound, cabinets, drivers and more.
Edit: i can no longer find anything that specifically says 3k and 10k for the x-over points. Can someone confirm and keep me honest !?!
 
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#4,522
So, when fully CW and therefore with a crossover point of of 10KHz, would that kind of turn a Big Baby 2 into a Super Compact since they use the same woofer? I say "kind of" because I'm assuming that the the bigger cabinet of the Big Baby 2 would give you a deeper output than a Super Compact?

I also see that the Super Compact has an upper limit of 4 KHz. So is there also a difference in the way those two cabinets handle the high end so that there's audible/usable high end content above 4 KHz in a Big Baby 2? Or does the usable top end of a Big Baby 2 set fully CW extend to that same 4 KHz so their high ends are basically similar?
 
#4,523
dave64o said:
So, when fully CW and therefore with a crossover point of of 10KHz, would that kind of turn a Big Baby 2 into a Super Compact since they use the same woofer? I say "kind of" because I'm assuming that the the bigger cabinet of the Big Baby 2 would give you a deeper output than a Super Compact?

I also see that the Super Compact has an upper limit of 4 KHz. So is there also a difference in the way those two cabinets handle the high end so that there's audible/usable high end content above 4 KHz in a Big Baby 2? Or does the usable top end of a Big Baby 2 set fully CW extend to that same 4 KHz so their high ends are basically similar?
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I think you are right with the SC comparison. The following review says that the 12 has reasonable response to 10k on it's own and the lowest x-over point is 2k. Anyone have the facts? Perhaps someone should ask Alex.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#4,524
dave64o said:
So, when fully CW and therefore with a crossover point of of 10KHz, would that kind of turn a Big Baby 2 into a Super Compact since they use the same woofer? I say "kind of" because I'm assuming that the the bigger cabinet of the Big Baby 2 would give you a deeper output than a Super Compact?

I also see that the Super Compact has an upper limit of 4 KHz. So is there also a difference in the way those two cabinets handle the high end so that there's audible/usable high end content above 4 KHz in a Big Baby 2? Or does the usable top end of a Big Baby 2 set fully CW extend to that same 4 KHz so their high ends are basically similar?
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Good question, that.
 
#4,525
Cool, then I'm not the only one who wants to dig a little deeper. @alexclaber, could you help us out with this question?

Yeah, on one hand, asking questions and learning more about this stuff is good because you can better understand where the sound is coming from, how it gets to your ears, and how to apply what you know about it to reaching the end goal of getting the sound you want in a given situation. But, on the other hand, there's something to be said for the "Shut up and play your guitar!" approach, too. :D

Unfortunately the engineer in me usually doesn't like just letting me "shut up and play my guitar". Reminds me of all the times my old instructor kept telling me "Turn off your brain and stop analyzing everything. Just play it!". :facepalm:
 
#4,526
dave64o said:
So, when fully CW and therefore with a crossover point of of 10KHz, would that kind of turn a Big Baby 2 into a Super Compact since they use the same woofer? I say "kind of" because I'm assuming that the the bigger cabinet of the Big Baby 2 would give you a deeper output than a Super Compact?

I also see that the Super Compact has an upper limit of 4 KHz. So is there also a difference in the way those two cabinets handle the high end so that there's audible/usable high end content above 4 KHz in a Big Baby 2? Or does the usable top end of a Big Baby 2 set fully CW extend to that same 4 KHz so their high ends are basically similar?
Click to expand...

My ear says similar, but not identical. As noted, they are using the same woofer in a similarly sized box, which gets you pretty close. However, the bigger box changes the characteristics enough that the proportions feel different. You could make a similar argument for the SM being a smaller SC when you turn that tweeter off. I'm not sure there's anything significant enough to make them so different that an EQ adjustment or two wouldn't get you pretty close. I've owned all three, and owned a SC and SM at the same time.
 
#4,527
MT, good point about the comparison between the Super Compact and the Super Midget. I hadn't thought about that one but it makes sense.

Kinda funny how those comparisons to the BB2 and SM kind of makes a great sales pitch for the SC - like it's the P-bass of cabinets. It may not be the *perfect* cabinet for every situation but it's still an *appropriate* choice for any situation.
 
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#4,528
I think the real benefit of the bigger box is that the extra low end extension inherent in the design "frees up the watts" to go toward producing loud instead of low. I believe the SM can go as low or as loud as the SC, but not both at the same time (IME). That's the cab design trade-off. Same for the SC and BB2.
 
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#4,529
kimmyt said:
So I am sure this has been asked before, but with 225 pages to this thread I thought I would ask again. I just received my BB2 and have yet to play live with it. I will be playing live outdoors on Friday and I am sure it is really all I need with my sound also going through the PA. However I just feel the need to have another BB2 to stack on top. I did inquire about a SM or SC and Alex suggested the SM. But looking to see how many have 2 BB2's and their thoughts. I used to play through a Big Twin 2 and loved it. Took a turn at Phil Jones stuff but I am back and think I want the second BB2. Help me decide.
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I have 2 BB2's. While most gigs with one BB2 would suffice I really like having a second in a vertical stack to closer to ear level. Plus I seem to get some additional bottom and slightly more head room at 4ohms. I turn off the horn on the bottom cab and adjust the horn on the top cab to taste.
 
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#4,532
Stu_Bass said:
I think you are right with the SC comparison. The following review says that the 12 has reasonable response to 10k on it's own and the lowest x-over point is 2k. Anyone have the facts? Perhaps someone should ask Alex.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
Just read the article but I'm not sure about something. It says that when turned "off " the crossover point is at its maximum, or 10 KHz. And when turned "on" it's at its lowest point, which the article says is 2 KHz. I think of off being fully CCW and on being fully CW, so my impression was the opposite of what I think the article is saying. So maybe the easiest to answer one of my questions is what is the crossover frequency when fully counterclockwise and what is the crossover frequency when the knob is full clockwise.

The article did seem to partially answer my question about the frequencies the woofer can handle when it mentioned it has a concentric mid driver, which it says helps it go up to 10 KHz. I knew the BF 10" woofers in the XXX10 series had a concentric mid/high driver in one vertical half of those speaker cab, but I didn't remember reading that the BF 12's did also.
 
#4,533
dave64o said:
Just read the article but I'm not sure about something. It says that when turned "off " the crossover point is at its maximum, or 10 KHz. And when turned "on" it's at its lowest point, which the article says is 2 KHz. I think of off being fully CCW and on being fully CW, so my impression was the opposite of what I think the article is saying. So maybe the easiest to answer one of my questions is what is the crossover frequency when fully counterclockwise and what is the crossover frequency when the knob is full clockwise.

The article did seem to partially answer my question about the frequencies the woofer can handle when it mentioned it has a concentric mid driver, which it says helps it go up to 10 KHz. I knew the BF 10" woofers in the XXX10 series had a concentric mid/high driver in one vertical half of those speaker cab, but I didn't remember reading that the BF 12's did also.
Click to expand...

Of course the crossover is "on" all the time, it's just a question of where it is set. As you are no doubt already aware.

So as far as the horn:

Horn completely "off" is fully CW -- highest crossover point (10KHz apparently), so everything goes to the 12" driver and nothing to the horn.

Horn fully "on" is fully CCW --the crossover point is at its lowest point (apparently 2 or 3K, article says 2KHz but I've also heard 3KHz here in this thread). So in the case (full CCW) the horn is fully "on" and everything above that 2 or 3KHz is going to the horn.

Maybe it's just the terminology used in the article of "off and "on" that is confusing you? It refers to horn on or off, not CW and CCW position respectively.

For me, I just remember that the dial is a crossover point control, not a horn level. It's easy to keep straight that way, for me ( I stop and think about that as I am setting that dial).

Imagine that dial had incremental markings going from left to right... 2KHz, 3KHz, 4KHZ....... 8KHz, 9KHz, 10 KHz. Of course I don't know where those exact numbers would lay on the dial, but just thinking of it that way makes it easy for me to remember...

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea for Alex to put an approximate scale/frequency markings on the range of that dial. But I'll leave that to Alex who knows better than I; perhaps it would just be too inaccurate and therefore misleading. Or maybe just label it "crossover frequency control" or something.

Hopefully I am understanding your question correctly.
 
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#4,534
Yep, I get that the knob adjusts the crossover point, but I think what made me scratch my head is what the terms "off" and "on" were referring to in teh article. I was thinking it referred to the knob position but it actually referred to whether the horn is "on" or "off", so you're right about that. Assuming what you said is correct then it looks like both the article and I are correct.

Although, I still think it's confusing to talk about the horn being "on" and "off" since that kind of implies a normal horn level control, which the BB2 doesn't have. But, at least you confirmed that going CCW lowers the "value" and going CW raises the "value", just like on all normal knobs. The key is to remember that, in this case, the "value" the knob adjusts is NOT the horn volume level. It adjusts the crossover point.

OK, I'm done confusing everyone for now.

:wacky:
 
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#4,536
DaveAceofBass said:
Has anyone here tried a Super Compact with an upright bass? I'm thinking of adding a SC or a One10 to my BB2 to make a stacking option and to use for upright gigs, or low volume electric gigs.
Click to expand...

I am not an upright player except in my basement for now, but I've heard from a number of upright players who like the Super Midget, so maybe that's something to consider.

@LowNote has a One10, an SM, AND a BB2 and uses all 3 with his upright, IIRC, so he'd be a great person to ask. Also IIRC, he tends to set the SM or BB2 horn very low to off, to avoid string noise. As such, it's hard to imagine a SC NOT being decent for URB.

However-- IMO, between the SC, SM, and One10, the SM would give you a better stack option (for EB use); and the SM is an excellent little cab for stand-alone use depending on gig size. I use it a lot, and will use it tonight.

I don't think Alex particularly recommends using the no-horn SC with a BB2 or SM which both have the horn; nor does he recommend mixing the 10's and 12's since they have such different tonal goals. There are a few here who disagee with this, and like the SM + One10... but I am not at all sure mixing the drivers and inherent tone of a 12" BB2 and a10" One10 is ideal. I tired it once combining SM with One10... it was certainly serviceable, but I didn't think it was super great sounding, but I'll admit that the terrible sounding room probably had something to do with that.

An SM with the horn low to off would IMO give you pretty much everything a SC would, except with slightly less bottom end maybe, due to box size (but SM bottom is fully adequate). And it pairs with the BB2 well in a stack, more so than an SC I believe (though I don't have an SC). TheOne10, by all reports, works well with URB; an is a very handy stand-alone tool for small gigs with EB too, I find. But maybe not the best candidate for stacking with a BB2.

Bottom line, I'd ask LowNote about his Barefaced cab/URB opinions. Here's a quick link to a thread where the SM, One10, and BB2 are discussed by him and others with respect to upright bass. Good luck!

Barefaced One10
 
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#4,537
Plutonium244 said:
Wha??? I am NEVER wrong, how dare you sir! :)

But yeah, sounds like it was just confusion about what they meant by on and off, you had the correct understanding about what position does what.
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You were certainly right about the One10 I bought. Gotta give you credit for at least that. ;)
 
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#4,538
Plutonium244 said:
I don't think Alex particularly recommends using the no-horn SC with a BB2 or SM which both have the horn;
Click to expand...
From the BF website:

Mix and match 12XN rigs
All the 12XN550 Barefaced cabs will work well together. However the best pairings are either with identical cabs or with matching 1x12" and 2x12" variants (i.e. BB2 with BT2, SC with ST). The other particularly good pairing is the Super Midget with the Super Compact.
 
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