- May 20, 2000
- 3,200
- 1,917
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Spector, Dingwall, Tech 21 NYC, Darkglass
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Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club
- Thread starter Stumbo
- Start date
- May 20, 2000
- 3,200
- 1,917
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Spector, Dingwall, Tech 21 NYC, Darkglass
I think it worked well. It tightened the sound and became more reminiscent of the NV610. I'm not one for a lot of deep, thick bass in my tone, so sealing the retrosix10 doesn't make me miss the lows the port provides.
I've now spent 3 weeks with the Retro210 4ohm. Having played the Retro610 for awhile. The 210 is definitely cut from the same cloth. BL's like the form factor much more over the larger cab, and I appreciate it at load out. I've been using it with a GK MB fusion 500, was able to open it up a little last weekend in a 300 seat small/med venue. I wasn't in the house, the FOH sound guy said the the low end was solid throughout the whole room, not mush but full. Pretty happy with the cab, cudos Alex!
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Very happy with my Big Twin T, and my whole rig:
I did not know they made a three way. Sahweeeet!
Can anyone (including Alex) with Retro 210 experience comment on how they color the sound vs the G3 12" cabs? I'm curious how they relate to the SM and SC.
- May 20, 2000
- 3,200
- 1,917
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, Spector, Dingwall, Tech 21 NYC, Darkglass
alexclaber
Commercial User
Right, here goes! Though as Zappa said, talking about music is like dancing about architecture...
I'm going to compare the Super Compact and the Retro Two10 because they're the most similar two cabs from the 12XN and 10CR ranges.
At lower volumes the Two10 is more subdued in the midrange, with a rounder and slightly boomier quality to the lows. The treble from the Two10 is a little more present but in a less clean manner, more like a 'clean' guitar cab. The Super Compact definitely has a more immediate punch to the tone, partly from the mids but also because it has more precise transient response.
If you're using an amp with a fair bit of clean power the difference becomes a lot more obvious as you turn up. The Super Compact stays sounding almost exactly the same up to extremely high levels whilst the Two10 starts to get kind of furry around the edges, then starts to growl, then gets grindier sounding until you have a fairly aggressively overdriven tone. Normally that kind of gradually increasing overdrive goes hand in hand with losing more and more of the lows and the midrange losing its punch because the overdrive comes from voice coil over-excursion (coil moving more and more out of the gap) but with the 10CR driver the voice coil is staying within the gap and the overdrive is coming from the cone flexing.
Hope that helps!
That is helpful. If the 10CR overdrive is from cone flexing but not voice coil over-excursion, then you should get the character with minimal power compression loss. I can see how an 8 ohm 10CR would be useful for building both the Retro Two10 and Six10. I usually think of a 210 as a practice cab more than a gig cab, but you could open up a 500 watt head into this 4 ohm twin and really make it sing without being excursion limited. I bet that would sound great and cover quite a bit of ground.
I suppose with the super compact if you used a tube amp with rich harmonics and overdrive you could still get a very nice tone but work the amp more than the cab to get there. I like the Big Twin II because of its ability to dial the horn in or out. It's a bigger box which goes lower than the Super Twin which is good for extended range basses. I'll bet the low B is outstanding. With this slightly bigger box, does the Big Twin II have the punch of the Super Twin or is the trade off more extended lows with the sound not being quite as immediate?
I suppose with the super compact if you used a tube amp with rich harmonics and overdrive you could still get a very nice tone but work the amp more than the cab to get there. I like the Big Twin II because of its ability to dial the horn in or out. It's a bigger box which goes lower than the Super Twin which is good for extended range basses. I'll bet the low B is outstanding. With this slightly bigger box, does the Big Twin II have the punch of the Super Twin or is the trade off more extended lows with the sound not being quite as immediate?
@ alexclaber
So how works on Behemoth are going? Any new info? Any chance of giving some info? Will it be sealled 412 or maybe horned 218? Or maybe You are working on some new kind of speekers?
Is there anywhere curves for 12XN550 speaker? Big Baby II has usable frequency set on 30Hz - is this like -12db at curves more/less?
So how works on Behemoth are going? Any new info? Any chance of giving some info? Will it be sealled 412 or maybe horned 218? Or maybe You are working on some new kind of speekers?
Is there anywhere curves for 12XN550 speaker? Big Baby II has usable frequency set on 30Hz - is this like -12db at curves more/less?
alexclaber
Commercial User
Behemoth leaning towards a 4x12XN design. No-one's yet convinced me about a 2x18"!
We have all the measurements of the 12XN550 but not planning on publishing them yet, maybe in the future. The lower usable frequency is mostly based on excursion limited max SPL - basically as low as the cab can go before it doesn't do anything worthwhile in a band context. Often these limits are based on the 1W frequency response curve but that fails to take into account two critical things: 1. What you can do with EQ and 2. If the speaker has enough excursion and the port enough air movement ability to create sufficiently clean output at a useful SPL.
Yes that is true! i will copy this quote for other discusion, cause many users does not understand this matter. Thank You for reply! 4x12 would be smashing
Will it be sealled? All speakers in same direction?
I understand not realeasing curves is wise in $ issue, cause poeple that does not understand how to read it could missread them and avoid buying. Totaly understand that.
Advantage of having curve would be knowing how to EQ the curve to achieve linear tone
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alexclaber
Commercial User
Yes, exactly!
It's kind of the other way around. The Super Twin has a bit more of a thump to its sound, like you're probably more used to from bass cabs, whilst the Big Twin 2 goes deeper and is tighter/quicker/more immediate.
Wow that is different than what I would have thought. When I've modeled a ported enclosure with a driver that has a sizeable group delay (>12msec at 50 Hz), reducing box volume tends to reduce this delay which I thought was related to how coherent and defined the low end is. The tradeoff is reduced low end sensitivity but you are less likely to bottom out at high power - kind of like having stiffer springs in your suspension. Perhaps that's too simplistic. Regardless, that 12XN550 driver looks incredible. Deeper and tighter with adjustable high freq is very attractive for the Big Twin 2. If you have a tube preamp which imparts some nice harmonics and a little give to the feel and add a bump around 120 Hz can you still get a good traditional vibe with this cab?
speaking of a 120 bump, for those who missed my NAD thread, i just snagged a Demeter VTBP M 800 D, which has a 120 bass eq option 
this head through my Super Midget is killing me. i want to push it hard and heavy into the Super Compact in a band setting. it is pretty ridiculous tone.
this head through my Super Midget is killing me. i want to push it hard and heavy into the Super Compact in a band setting. it is pretty ridiculous tone.
