Official Joyo Club Part 2: Beyond Thunderclone

[mexicanyella]

Just received a Joyo JF-16 “British Sound” and initial test drives on bass and guitar seem promising.

On both instruments I seem to like the cleaner side of the Marshall spectrum: I like more mids than I seem to get from Fender BF/SF type EQ, and a fairly clean sound that can be pushed into a little bit of snarl and grit when I dig in.

I’ve been scratching that itch with a Zoom B2 on the Marshall Superbass setting for a few years now and like how it works, and wanted to see if the JF-16 could get a similar tone, without having to navigate through digital “tone modules” and with less gain stages to manage.

(By “manage” I mean “crank;” I only run the faux-Superbass gain at about 20% to retain some “clean” but since I run the Zoom right into a rack power amp, I have to run the various other level adjustments pretty hot to generate enough level to push the power amp adequately.)

I won’t get to test the JF-16’s output level for a few days but at lower levels it seems to offer plenty of dirt management and tone shaping. I get what seems like the right amount of gentle stank with the drive at 9-10 o’clock, the EQ knobs and voice knob close to noon.

(This is with a Squier P with D’Addario chrome flats).

More to come after our next band practice, when I get to wind up the level
control, see if it can push the power amp and whether I miss the Zoom’s compression and noise reduction features.

 

[bassbrad]

@mexicanyella my experience with the California Sound says you are on the right track and should be pleased.

 

[mexicanyella]

@mexicanyella my experience with the California Sound says you are on the right track and should be pleased.

Thanks, BB, I hope that is so. I was torn between this and the American Sound version from watching YouTube reviews, but the fact that I gravitated to Marshall Plexi-ish sounds both with my Zoom and a borrowed Line 6 Pod 2.0 before it made me think I lean in the Marshall direction for bass.

 

[bassbrad]

@mexicanyella Although Leo Fender and Jim Marshall started with the same basic circuit they both bent, to use contemporary parlance, or modified it to make it their own and both are very special. Each over the years went on to develop and expand the functionality but in some ways the original is still the best.
The SansAmp Character and the Joyo Sound series do a very good job delivering those characteristics.

 

[cheechi]

All the recent talk about the British makes me want to revisit it on bass. My initial trials with it found it lacking that 'magic' on bass that the American & California have. I tend to like a bit more crunch out of the Marshall sound then @mexicanyella describes, but I wasn't able to find my happy medium.

I want it on my pedalboard, as I don't currently have a Marshall sound. I have yet to try it with a clean blend and I am hopeful that can make the difference.

One thing I never tried to investigate is whether the American has a Fender tone stack, and whether any of the others do (as I don't think they would considering the amps they are based upon) but the voice knob is basically a sweeping para mid boost and that's what I typically use for mids adjustments on these pedals; maybe I should spend more time tweaking both mids knobs and that's where the answer is.

Kind of a 'thinking out loud' type discussion but hopefully its helpful to you.

 

[mexicanyella]

I’ve never played bass through a Marshall apart from Line 6 and Zoom’s idea of what a Marshall sounds like...but I’m trying to come in just under the dirt level of what ???Jimmy Bain??? sounded like on Dio songs like “Holy Dive-AH.” Not really crunchy but with a little gritty edge on top of some mids that I think of as “moofy.” There, that probably helped your tone search. Sure, you can use that word too.

I wish I could try to work a real Plexi-era Marshall head to see how their tone stacks really responded and to feel how much the compressed feel comes in as you turn them up. But I don’t really need to know how accurate the emulations are. I seem to get what I want running a digital Marshall model at low gain rather than cranking the gain up on a cleaner-charactered amp model like a Fender ______, or Zoom’s Trace Elliot or SWR or SVT or Hartke or Bassman.

I’m pleased so far that the Joyo’s controls seem to respond in a way that is analogous to the simulations I’m used to; it’s a start. Hopefully cranking it up enough to drive my power amp won’t be noise city.

All the recent talk about the British makes me want to revisit it on bass. My initial trials with it found it lacking that 'magic' on bass that the American & California have. I tend to like a bit more crunch out of the Marshall sound then @mexicanyella describes, but I wasn't able to find my happy medium.

I want it on my pedalboard, as I don't currently have a Marshall sound. I have yet to try it with a clean blend and I am hopeful that can make the difference.

One thing I never tried to investigate is whether the American has a Fender tone stack, and whether any of the others do (as I don't think they would considering the amps they are based upon) but the voice knob is basically a sweeping para mid boost and that's what I typically use for mids adjustments on these pedals; maybe I should spend more time tweaking both mids knobs and that's where the answer is.

Kind of a 'thinking out loud' type discussion but hopefully its helpful to you.

 

[boristhespider7]

More to come after our next band practice, when I get to wind up the level
control, see if it can push the power amp and whether I miss the Zoom’s compression and noise reduction features.

Keep us posted...be interested to here your further opinions on it!

 

[mexicanyella]

Running directly into the power amp input of my old Peavey TKO 115, I was able to get loudish (loutish?) tones I liked with the JF-16, with the pictured knob positions. Once I am able to see how hard I can hit my power amp’s clip
light/DDT circuit I’ll have a better sense of how this thing’s output stacks up to the old Zoom’s claimed +5 dBm.

A couple of early observations:

1. The Voice knob, and its relationship to the position of the Mid knob, has a huge effect on the tonal quality. As I understand it, below 50% on the Voice cuts at one frequency (500 Hz, maybe?) and above 50% boosts at another, higher, frequency (800 Hz, maybe?) This combination of knob positions seems to get close to how I boost the mids on the TKO or the Zoom graphic equalizer.

2. Setting the gain much higher than what you see here starts to sound like “distorted bass” to me, rather than the “clean-ish amp turned up loud” tone I am shooting for. But set low like this it sounds kind of clean, not sterile, with grit accessible by digging in. This thing has waaaay more front- end crunch than I need, but maybe I’ll have fun in the higher reaches of that control with my guitar.

Haven’t tried my lap steel through it yet...

3. After reading some accounts of flimsy components on these I was a little apprehensive, but everything feels pretty tight and robust so far. Nice smooth resistance on the knob rotation and a stout CLICK on the footswitch (which will rarely get used in my always-on scenario). I recall the Ampeg SCR-DI feeling flimsier to operate when I tried one at GC a year or so ago.

Hey guys, we need to practice so I can try my new toy out! Nothing wrong with my priority structure...

 

[mexicanyella]

...continued...so, the JF-16 does not have enough output level for my situation. It’s got enough flexibility to be an always-on tone-shaper, but I guess it’s going to work better for driving the front end of an amp/mixer channel/audio interface. Pretty cool device, but I think I will find it a new home and move on.

 

[cheechi]

is it possible at all to add a 'true' preamp to the power amp and set it as neutral as you can? I assume the answer to this question comes down to 'i don't want to buy and/or carry more things' but is it more about finding a preamp that has as neutral a voicing as you need to let this pedal be your preamp voicing, or is it just about the purchase and/or weight?

I can tell you from experience these pedals sound great into the front of a Combo 300 which is very similar to your TKO, if you like the sound of the TKO's pre set flat with the pedal's knobs as pictured then we have similar tastes. As a result of that assumption, I could suggest any of the several Peavey 1U preamp units might also help solve your issue. While I love the SS drive I get out of my several Peavey heads & pres, I can easily tame them back to neutral and let any of my preamp pedals take the full voice focus.

 

[mexicanyella]

I still have an old DOD FX17 Bi-Fet Preamp pedal I used to use for solo boost with guitar. I think those can boost a signal about 17 dB; that might be something to try last in the signal path before forming a final opinion on the Joyo.

The power amp in my normal rig is a Peavey M-3000, which is your Combo’s power stage in a metal rack enclosure. How about those razor-sharp heatsink fins?

Edit/add:

One thing this Joyo experiment has showed me is I actually want things cleaner than I realized. I think I gravitated towards cleaner Marshally sounds because of a certain midrange prominence and gradual transition into dirt, rather than a cranked up crunchy sound. I can get the EQ profile and almost-dirt out of the gear I already have, and what the Joyo would add would be additional crunch that sounds good, but which falls beyond the threshold of what I want to use. Below that threshold it is another way to get a sound I like, but it’s redundant and would require more gain stages downstream.

But maybe some aspect of Joyo + DOD or Joyo + Zoom remains to blow my mind. More research to come...

 

[cheechi]

I didn't realize that was available as a power amp only, I do want to get a power amp to pair with my Max Pre...

how heavy is it? how many rack units tall?

Sound wise, what I want out of a Marshall is somewhere between Happy Jack & the solo from Overkill. But i mean really what I want is what everyone wants, a full stack with a Super Bass or Major on top.

 

[Jo Bass]

Joyo AC Tone ,not bad at all ,nice drive .
With American it sounds even better.

 

[mexicanyella]

@cheechi, sorry, just saw your question:

The M-3000 power amp is three rack spaces tall, but not very deep...maybe 10-1/2”’ so, not counting the face handles or murderous heatsink fins on the back. I’ve got it in a shallow three-space SKB Roto rack and there’s just enough room to fold the power cable in under the back lid. I would guess its weight to be about 25 lb. unracked.

Under the lid, its guts look like they might be out of a small old arc welder. Big transformer and caps.

I just picked up a used Crown MicroTech 600 power amp to add some slam to my wham, and its input sensitivity can be set to 0.775V (the Peavey wants to see 1V at the input). So the Joyo might be fun to try in front of that amp.

 

[bassbrad]

T

@cheechi, sorry, just saw your question:

The M-3000 power amp is three rack spaces tall, but not very deep...maybe 10-1/2”’ so, not counting the face handles or murderous heatsink fins on the back. I’ve got it in a shallow three-space SKB Roto rack and there’s just enough room to fold the power cable in under the back lid. I would guess its weight to be about 25 lb. unracked.

Under the lid, its guts look like they might be out of a small old arc welder. Big transformer and caps.

I just picked up a used Crown MicroTech 600 power amp to add some slam to my wham, and its input sensitivity can be set to 0.775V (the Peavey wants to see 1V at the input). So the Joyo might be fun to try in front of that amp.

The M-3000 is indeed a beast but like all those old Peavey boat anchor power amps they do keep on rolling. I couldn't give the damn thing away so I currently have my old M-3000 powering my home theater 15"sub-woofer, when it thunders, it THUNDERS

 

[mexicanyella]

Yeah, that seems like a good use for one; hope you have the tri-color LEDs on display!

I think I’ll probably keep mine as a backup, or a home amp, regardless of whether the Crown amp works out. Not worth selling and it’s pretty stout engineering in spite of its limited power output.

 

[WillyW]

The “ultimate drive” is one of my favorite pedals of all time.

“US dream” is my least favorite pedal of all time, and I used to own a snarling dog distortion pedal....

vintage OD is good too, as is the flanger, the phaser is just ok (spoiled by the small stone)

 

[DirtyDuke]

Just received a Joyo JF-16 “British Sound” and initial test drives on bass and guitar seem promising.

On both instruments I seem to like the cleaner side of the Marshall spectrum: I like more mids than I seem to get from Fender BF/SF type EQ, and a fairly clean sound that can be pushed into a little bit of snarl and grit when I dig in.

I’ve been scratching that itch with a Zoom B2 on the Marshall Superbass setting for a few years now and like how it works, and wanted to see if the JF-16 could get a similar tone, without having to navigate through digital “tone modules” and with less gain stages to manage.

(By “manage” I mean “crank;” I only run the faux-Superbass gain at about 20% to retain some “clean” but since I run the Zoom right into a rack power amp, I have to run the various other level adjustments pretty hot to generate enough level to push the power amp adequately.)

I won’t get to test the JF-16’s output level for a few days but at lower levels it seems to offer plenty of dirt management and tone shaping. I get what seems like the right amount of gentle stank with the drive at 9-10 o’clock, the EQ knobs and voice knob close to noon.

(This is with a Squier P with D’Addario chrome flats).

More to come after our next band practice, when I get to wind up the level
control, see if it can push the power amp and whether I miss the Zoom’s compression and noise reduction features.

If you want a Marshall sound in a pedal you should try this one
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[mexicanyella]

If you want a Marshall sound in a pedal you should try this one
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

That looks like a pretty sweet unit! Probably out of my budget range for awhile but thanks for the link and I’ll keep it in mind.

 

[cheechi]

Funny you mention the drive. Yes it does have nice drive but if you review 0:15-0:35 you'll see the drive is really subtle until the high knob moves past noon. Similarly you can get the drive to speak bumping the mids knob, but the AC tone circuit's drive must be more in its upper register. There are parts of the video that it gives the lower notes some real beefy goodness but overall this is the reason the AC & British aren't as good for bass (my opinion) as the Cali & American. Thank you for demonstrating, it was harder to describe before watching your video why it didn't jive with what I wanted. Also I like your AC tone riffs quite a lot and may have already stolen part of one.

Finally, I think the AC sounds better with your J than my LB75 (active soapbars), PJ or Rondo Beatle bass. I assume yours is passive single coils? I don't think I tried my passive J with it ever, for some reason. I may revisit that however I do rarely play the J.

Joyo AC Tone ,not bad at all ,nice drive .
With American it sounds even better.