Official Tobias Club

[iplay5strings]

First, Mike himself will tell you that the electronics and preamps were never his strongest part of the package. and, what I mean is that his luthiery expertise far outweighs his electronics tech capability. That said, certainly each to their own. There are def a bunch of players, like yourself, who prize the TCT / drop shoulder pickups.

That's all cool; but, for my part, I struggled with all of that. Both of the pre-Nashvilles I gigged extensively were Sig5's. The first one had the later preamp you described; and I had to work extensively with the Nashville folks to finally get a preamp I liked in it. Sort of.

That didn't stick; and a few years later I obtained an earlier Hollywood bass with the TCT / Drop Shoulder pickups. In my hands the TCT, after I removed some objectionable LPF wiring that had been installed as an option, was OK going to tape, but just meh in a live mix. I ended up (carefully / reversibly) stripping that out and installing a Pope preamp, which opened the live voicing up to a considerable extent.

Meanwhile, Pat Wilkins did the refin on my C6, which included the Pope preamp AND what were then prototype Nordstrand Zen Blades. And, that result was SO successful, that I ultimately sold the Hollywood Sig 5, because I didn't want to do an irreversible rout to replace the Drop Shoulder pickups; and used the proceeds to fund the bass Mike more recently built for me. For MY purposes, the Zen Blades plus Pope preamp are a significant improvement over the Drop Shoulders / TCT, the latter of which both just sounded more closed up. Which is fine for studio tracking; but, I prefer more open voicing so for live work. So, as always, YMMV; that's just my experience.

You definitely have to be a fan of the dual coil thing to like the old pickups, which it seems like you're not. The problem (but also beauty) with the TCT is that all the controls affect each other, so any difference in wiring will affect the whole circuit. With so many different ways to wire it, the trick is finding the right way for you. It's taken years of examining pictures of the preamps in 80's Tobias' that I liked the sound of to figure out what Bob Lee did with those particular setups that had "that" sound.

 

[bucephylus]

You definitely have to be a fan of the dual coil thing to like the old pickups, which it seems like you're not. The problem (but also beauty) with the TCT is that all the controls affect each other, so any difference in wiring will affect the whole circuit. With so many different ways to wire it, the trick is finding the right way for you. It's taken years of examining pictures of the preamps in 80's Tobias' that I liked the sound of to figure out what Bob Lee did with those particular setups that had "that" sound.

Likewise, I beat my head against the wall and poured hours of effort (soldering gun in hand) into making my TCT perform at it's best. The Pope (recommended by @tombowlus ) was simply a vast improvement for MY prefs. So, I have stuck with it.

And, BTW, the Zen Blades are just freakin awesome. But, def YMMV as usual. the Drop Shoulders were fine. It's not like I hated them. The Zens were just more open sounding. When I had the two instruments and could compare them, the differences were readily apparent.

I should add, that when I say "closed," referring to the TCT and the Drop shoulders, what I really mean is compressed. Much more accurate term. I don't use compressors and do not care for what they do to my live sound. But, I recognize the utility in the studio. If that makes sense.

 

[iplay5strings]

Likewise, I beat my head against the wall and poured hours of effort (soldering gun in hand) into making my TCT perform at it's best. The Pope (recommended by @tombowlus ) was simply a vast improvement for MY prefs. So, I have stuck with it.

And, BTW, the Zen Blades are just freakin awesome. But, def YMMV as usual. the Drop Shoulders were fine. It's not like I hated them. The Zens were just more open sounding. When I had the two instruments and could compare them, the differences were readily apparent..

Part of the problem is that Bartolini's own wiring diagrams do not reflect the way Bob Lee was doing it. Some of the stuff they show to do on those diagrams was actually part of the problem lol. And yes, the blades are amazing pickups. Probably the only Saratoga I've heard that I liked had a set of those in it. The Pope preamp is also fantastic!

 

[iplay5strings]

I should add, that when I say "closed," referring to the TCT and the Drop shoulders, what I really mean is compressed. Much more accurate term. I don't use compressors and do not care for what they do to my live sound. But, I recognize the utility in the studio. If that makes sense.

There are two main things that Bartolini shows in their wiring diagrams that cause the TCT to sound the way you describe. It (purposely?) muzzles the preamp. Of course a single coil-per-string pickup will sound more open than a dual, there's WAY less frequency filtering happening due to there being less coil interaction .

 

[bucephylus]

Part of the problem is that Bartolini's own wiring diagrams do not reflect the way Bob Lee was doing it. Some of the stuff they show to do on those diagrams was actually part of the problem lol. And yes, the blades are amazing pickups. Probably the only Saratoga I've heard that I liked had a set of those in it. The Pope preamp is also fantastic!

You know, that's an interesting point. Along the way, I had many discussion with Mike about the TCT wiring. He literally had no idea what Bob was doing, and could offer no guidance. All he could do was communicate with the folks at Bartolini; which he did. This was largely related to the oddball LPF wiring Bob had installed in that particular bass, but also more broadly about the wiring in general. My whole goal was to put the instrument back to what the shop was more generally doing at the time. Bob had checked out from contact, though he used to actually participate here on TB. I just finally caved on the effort. Is there some secret sauce still there in some of the basses known only to a select few? Possibly.

But, I will say that I auditioned (as in took delivery of) about 3 different pre-Nashville instruments when I bought the first Sig5 (ca. 1998-ish). The best sounding of the three was a C5; but, I passed on it, because it had the fugliest wenge top with massive finish streaking issues. Great sounding bass, but quite the ugly child. In any case, even the best I've played never matched up to what I'm using now. And again, my prefs and YMMV.

 

[bucephylus]

There are two main things that Bartolini shows in their wiring diagrams that cause the TCT to sound the way you describe. It (purposely?) muzzles the preamp. Of course a single coil-per-string pickup will sound more open than a dual, there's WAY less frequency filtering happening due to there being less coil interaction .

Excellent! Sounds like you sorted all this out. Might be a good idea for you to post up with the implementation improvements you have figured out; so that others may have the option to improve their instruments. Just a thought.

 

[iplay5strings]

You know, that's an interesting point. Along the way, I had many discussion with Mike about the TCT wiring. He literally had no idea what Bob was doing, and could offer no guidance. All he could do was communicate with the folks at Bartolini; which he did. This was largely related to the oddball LPF wiring Bob had installed in that particular bass, but also more broadly about the wiring in general. My whole goal was to put the instrument back to what the shop was more generally doing at the time. Bob had checked out from contact, though he used to actually participate here on TB. I just finally caved on the effort. Is there some secret sauce still there in some of the basses known only to a select few? Possibly.

But, I will say that I auditioned (as in took delivery of) about 3 different pre-Nashville instruments when I bought the first Sig5. The best sounding of the three was a C5; but, I passed on it, because it had the fugliest wenge top with massive finish streaking issues. Great sounding bass, but quite the ugly child. In any case, even the best I've played never matched up to what I'm using now. And again, my prefs and YMMV.

Sure, because you prefer the sound of single-coil-per-string pickups. You probably would've been a bigger fan of the last 200 Tobias' Mike made that had the reverse p pickups that eventually turned into the MTD pickups. Even then though, you seem to specifically prefer a straight across, j style pickup which is why you have an MTD with blades lol. My biggest gripe with the Tobias' was the spacing, WAY too tight. Changing mine to 19mm is what started the whole mess because the stock curved tops no longer reached the outside strings (more so the B string).

 

[red_rhino]

In fact, here in Tucson, we were under evacuation preparation orders yesterday for the Bighorn fire; and my C6 was one of three basses that made the cut to go in the car, had things gotten out of control.

Been there, done that. Fires in our area prompted me to go thru the mental exercise of "which two do I carry to the car when order comes?" My Tobias Classic 4 and my 65 P-bass made the cut. (All the rest got sold.)

I feel for you. Best of luck out there.

The problem (but also beauty) with the TCT is that all the controls affect each other, so any difference in wiring will affect the whole circuit. With so many different ways to wire it, the trick is finding the right way for you.

I never realized that until I read a functional description of the pre here on TB. Once I understood that, it completely changed the way I EQ'd the instrument for live purposes. The bass sounds absolutely amazing in the studio with no effort at all, but live I was struggling get a sound I was happy with until I understood the dynamics of the preamp. The result is that my live settings are nowhere near the same as my studio settings.

 

[Reedt2000]

I don't know if this counts, but I just finished up modifying this Epiphone-made Toby 5 string:

Special Edition Build Off - Toby Deluxe V facelift

I wasn't trying to replicate any other Tobias model. My choices were motivated mainly by the stuff I lusted after as a teenager in the 90s (bubinga and wenge Warwicks, Bart pickups and preamp, big complicated-looking bridges ). Figured I'd put it up here and see what the Tobias community thinks.

 

[bucephylus]

Sure, because you prefer the sound of single-coil-per-string pickups.

First, IMHO, it is hard to separate pickups from preamps in active basses. That said, my fav systems so far have been Seymour Duncan SJB-2's in passive Jazz basses, Alembic Series I and II pickups / preamp, Delano JMVC4 pickups with Sadowsky preamps, and Nordstrand Zen Blades with Pope preamps in 5 and 6 string basses. I'm not so sure that means I generally prefer single coil per string pickups; because those are all pretty different pickup architectures. I just like clear, open sounding pickups. I have NOT been impressed with any Jazz Bass profile pickup of any configuration on 5 string basses; since they all seem to result in weak / less defined E string projection. Anyhow, I just use MY ears, try things and go with what works for me. The Zens just seem to work.

You probably would've been a bigger fan of the last 200 Tobias' Mike made that had the reverse p pickups that eventually turned into the MTD pickups.

Ugh, actually my first Sig5 was one of the latter ones you are describing, built with the most striking lacewood top I've ever seen. I think the looks alone on that one had me. But, I never could get anywhere near the tones I was looking for out of that bass. At the time, Mike told me that lacewood was pretty, but was kind of the Styrofoam of wood, tone wise. I had to agree with him. Anyhow, I don't really remember those pickups being anything special either way. But, I was battling that preamp as well, and ended up putting one of the Bart NTMB 18V systems in it, at the recommendation of the Nashville folks, who were actually pretty cool.

Even then though, you seem to specifically prefer a straight across, j style pickup which is why you have an MTD with blades lol.

Guilty, at least on 4 bangers. Haven't been able to ID any 5 string versions that I care for so far, as stated earlier.

My biggest gripe with the Tobias' was the spacing, WAY too tight. Changing mine to 19mm is what started the whole mess because the stock curved tops no longer reached the outside strings (more so the B string).

Please forgive, but, I missed the "whole mess" you referenced. Did you actually modify a Tobias with a 19mm bridge? I would be surprised if the neck taper would have allowed it.

I know players feel REALLY passionately about bridge spacing. I don't happen to care either way, in terms of fingering. But, I will say that the 19mm Sadowsky 5's I have gigged, though no issue with right hand technique, just have always felt too "girthy" near the neck joint. Just unwieldy. One of the main reasons I went with the build from Mike, who built me a 17.5+ mm profile neck taper / spacing; closer to my preferred 18 mm. I would have gone Sadowsky; but, just haven't bonded with that 19mm neck taper, from a feel standpoint. I know, picky, picky.

Anyhow, just goes to show we all have different prefs. Keeps the luthiers in business.

 

[iplay5strings]

Please forgive, but, I missed the "whole mess" you referenced. Did you actually modify a Tobias with a 19mm bridge? I would be surprised if the neck taper would have allowed it.

I know players feel REALLY passionately about bridge spacing. I don't happen to care either way, in terms of fingering. But, I will say that the 19mm Sadowsky 5's I have gigged, though no issue with right hand technique, just have always felt too "girthy" near the neck joint. Just unwieldy. One of the main reasons I went with the build from Mike, who built me a 17.5+ mm profile neck taper / spacing; closer to my preferred 18 mm. I would have gone Sadowsky; but, just haven't bonded with that 19mm neck taper, from a feel standpoint. I know, picky, picky.

Anyhow, just goes to show we all have different prefs. Keeps the luthiers in business.

Yes, my classic V has 19mm at the bridge . Doing that though put the outside strings on the ragged edge of the magnetic field, especially the B string.

I've owned this bass for around 15 years, but it's only been played maybe 3 of those years. When I first got it, it had that cluster pre I referenced with the "slap mode" switch. It sounded great if you left it in slap mode, but it didn't last very long before failing. At the time Bartolini still offered a special order "Burbank Tobias" TCT harness, but the Bartolini rep talked me out of it because of the wait time and said that the HR5.4 they had was just like what Mike was using now. I put that preamp in and was disgusted with it. Mids were dark and quacky, new roundwounds sounded like Motown flats...the bass sounded like a first act target special. So on the wall the bass went and Bartolini had "discontinued" the TCT stuff at that point. FFwd a few years to me becoming an artist with Bartolini and getting them to bring back the Tobias TCT circuit and then having to get bigger pickups to accommodate the 19mm spacing which lead me down the road to figuring out all this stuff in really honing in that 80's era sound .

 

[WayneP]

Finally got my case!

Acoustic Remedy ClimaCase for Bass!

I was able to get a couple of original Tobias leather bass straps from the previous owner.

Now that I have a proper shrine, can I join the Official Tobias Club?

My apologies for not seeing this xtreme – for some reason I haven't been getting any email notifications lately. Welcome to the club #163 and enjoy that beautiful Signature! Add us to your signature if you feel inclined.

Updated list:
1. magneezius
2. Flintc
3. Eaglemoon
4. Vladpire
5. ireidta
6. saxofunk
7. Kesslari
8. ctmullins
9. rice128
10. westrock
11. grifo
12. kerenn
13. Jackholexxxx
14. rotassator
15. mrbassman de
16. Fealach
17. Debased
18. alexofc69
19. tombowlus
20. Phantasm
21. Tony G
22. Scubaduba
23. bucephylus
24. greenbass
25. johnpaulbass
26. rad87gn
27. manjonning
28. Basshole
29. capnsandwich
30. Flintc
31. Wadge
32. whoapower
33. Hella
34. Mungibunga
35. skb5string
36. toby23
37. NoFrets4Me
38. Gubna
39. Bassflute
40. ZionBound
41. tiz 1
42. abarson
43. Indigo
44. xk3smith
45. fitzy73
46. gr8fulhiker
47. jam.majors
48. aeonmouse
49. basspro557
50. svoncampe
51. sdbss
52. gbarcus
53. Agito (retired from club)
54. marvelous
55. shakey slim
56. Mattsochistic
57. joevcool
58. ClassicJazz
59. 73jbass
60. bassballs dk
61. architect
62. IvanMike
63. JMBassist
64. sayman
65. Holdsg (retired from club)
66. bass4worship
67. dofranco
68. MrLenny
69. Markus Tobias
70. w_bass
71. Carlosrzz
72. oystein
73. RoosterRusek
74. PlanetariumERB
75. el_crawfordo
76. gregwatts2008
77. sonyho
78. bwoodman
79. oystein
80. jo_mix
81. shade615
82. Red Planet
83. sneha1965
84. blackjack76
85. daerbass
86. maupek
87. meatwad
88. midijab
89. BrandonA119
90. pb9717
91. Mousekillaz
92. genmed42
93. thatinstrument
94. oldno.7
95. wolfmancharlie (retired from club)
96. Phil Smith
97. notejung
98. armybass
99. dkterry
100. basic5
101. Freezer
102. Mtnman
103. McSchwaiger
104. 77jazzbass
105. BARMALEY
106. seventhsunbass
107. Jason Wilson
108. Webtroll
109. dap
110. west*coast*bass
111. musiqisme26
112. vmabus
113. The Chuck
114. phatbass30
115. Brams77
116. tobias3469
117. sfearing
118. Ricky Caboverde
119. Nick supalerk
120. mntallpaul
121. Eugene B
122. mark35mi
123. Lo6man
124. noise_art
125. evilgus
126. higain617
127. barrel650
128. jbarn
129. kwdhsk
130. Basstovsky
131. Foal30
132. carvinbassplyr
133. WayneP
134. rufus.K
135. Chris McKenzie
136. Nightman
137. EdwardofHuncote
138. Mikkoantt
139. bassdudepat
140. TrcSeb
141. mustangcruise
142. dejan72
143. Brad Johnson
144. BlueAliceOasis
145. Buszkock
146. alzabass
147. jrussblues
148. Templar
149. Vuong Bass
150. Suresh
151. red_rhino
152. Echo008
153. Groove Doctor
154. guitarmutt
155. naetog
156. Spblat
157. Bruce
158. chupacerveza
159. darryl1965
160. BassistFTW
161. coyote1
162. John Stipicevic
163. xtremebassist1

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Acoustic Remedy ClimaCase for Bass!

 

[MrLenny1]

I have a Tobias Basic 5 Gibson era I got used.

Does anyone know the function of the 2 way toggle switch?
Is it for Active/Passive switching or Mids select ?
This axe was modified when I bought it & the switch had been
removed. I'd like to make it original. Online diagrams are not very specific.
Thanks for any info.

 

[mustangcruise]

On mine, which is 38xx, it's active/passive.

 

[Joshua Patrick]

Had a chance to pick up a Tobias Basic early Gibson model (I was told though don't know for certain because I don't know about the serial numbers) a few years back but had blown my budget on a Killer B, still kicking myself for that one...attached are photos, anyone in the know about them able to shine any light?

 

[mustangcruise]

I recommend contacting Gibson and asking for the date. They've been very helpful to me in the past when I had date questions for any of my Tobias models.

 

[Joshua Patrick]

Thanks for the info!

 

[coyote1]

Thanks to you, and to this community, for this post.

About a year ago I got a KillerB 6 string in walnut. Beautiful instrument. I did not know that it has a push-pull scoop on the volume pot! The volume control flaked out recently. It still works, but much of the travel does very little. Only at the very end does it really change. It's no longer smooth from zero to maximum.

So in exploring it, I discovered that the volume knob has a tiny bit of up-down play. About 1/32" or so, but I'd never noticed it before. So I did some research, which eventually landed me here. And seeing the info, I took off the knob... awesome! Whoever sold the bass to GC had locked the volume knob in the 'up' switch position.

I still have the issue with the volume pot, but at least now I have the slap-scoop function. And I now know what resistance I need if the pot needs replacement. I'm gonna hit it with contact cleaner and see if that helps. In any event, it now has a far greater tonal range.... I ordered new MTD strings a couple days ago, and can't wait til they arrive to hear this instrument.

EDIT: with knowledge comes power. I'd figured out quickly enough after I got the bass that the 3-way switch was a mid switch. But given the info in the pic, I now know it centers on 250, 500 and 850.

So on the graphic EQ on the Hartke amp, I've dropped the 250, 500 and 1000 hz sliders. On the Killer B, I have been running the mids knob nearly all the way up. Net result is that the 3-way switch instantly provides three different sounds, and now with the EQ sliders adjusted that sound is in good balance. And when I switch to the Portamento fretless, I simply disable the amp EQ. It's a great arrangement.

Hi Guys, thanks for your help, coincidentally after months of writing to Gibson, an email arrived last night, i share the info just in case someone else have the same bass, Greetings.

EMF
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

The pictures and serial number are consistent with a 1995 Tobias Basic 5 string model with a Zebrawood body, made in Nashville, TN. I have attached information on the model and schematic for your viewing. Thanks!

JS

Gibson Customer Service
1-800-4GIBSON
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------View attachment 925141 View attachment 925142 View attachment 925143

 

[coyote1]

Ok, so I'm no longer able to edit the above post. lol

All I had before grasping the existence of the push-pull was the scoop sound. I've now tweaked that using the internal trim pot. Sounds better than it did.... and now I have the un-scooped (open?) sound! I applied the contact cleaner, and while not perfect the volume control is better than it was.

This bass is in phenomenal shape. And I've now the much wider range of its available sound. I picked it up for $1100 after bargaining, and before my trade-in. I see 4 string KillerBs going for more than that. I find myself wondering if the seller did not know how good this instrument can sound, and likewise if GC was as unaware of the push-pull capability as I was.

 

[red_rhino]

I did not know that it has a push-pull scoop on the volume pot!

This is where I admit having done the same thing with a jazz bass that I owned for 10 years. One day at rehearsal I happened to pull on the volume knob and, voila!, it produced an amazing slap EQ curve. I felt like a complete idiot for never noticing it before.

To this day, every time I play a bass I'm not familiar with I check all the knobs to see if there's a a hidden push-pull feature.