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Ohm-age.

artimus667

Doh!
Supporting Member
Nov 3, 2008
163
245
Seattle
This might be a dead topic around here, but can someone please explain about ohms to me? Preferably like you’re politely explaining it to a slow child? I’ve been considering picking up a Quilter Interbass for fun, practice, recording, and as a back up. Also, because it seems like a very cool and potentially useful piece of gear. It’s 45watts but it drops to 33 with an 8ohm cab. I’d be using it primarily with a PF115, which is 8ohms. Is it possible and beneficial to have the Ampeg converted to 4ohms? The other amp I use with that cabinet is an Ampeg PF50T. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
The 50w tube amp should have a little bit extra poke than your proposed backup. It can put full power into 8ohms being a tube amp with matched transformer output.

That said, 33w isn't far short of 50w.

The effectiveness of adding power works on an inverse log scale. To be twice as loud is to be 10dB louder by definition. That takes 10x the power but frequently the cab would blow up first.

Each doubling of power gets you 3dB louder until you get to ''power compression'' where the motor heats up becoming less efficient.

The other thing is equivalent 4 ohm drivers are often less sensitive to power than their 8 ohm cousins. One step forward and half a step back.
 
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This might be a dead topic around here, but can someone please explain about ohms to me? Preferably like you’re politely explaining it to a slow child? I’ve been considering picking up a Quilter Interbass for fun, practice, recording, and as a back up. Also, because it seems like a very cool and potentially useful piece of gear. It’s 45watts but it drops to 33 with an 8ohm cab. I’d be using it primarily with a PF115, which is 8ohms. Is it possible and beneficial to have the Ampeg converted to 4ohms? The other amp I use with that cabinet is an Ampeg PF50T. Thanks in advance for your input.


ohms is essentially electrical resistance. There pure resistance which is constant regardless of frequency and their is also reactive resistance which varies with frequency. Reactive resistance is called impedance instead of resistance.

The reason power decrease with your amp when the load impedance changes from 4 to 8 ohms, is 8 ohms is higher impedance than 4 ohms (duh right?). Solid state amps try to produce the same amount of voltage regardless of the impedance so power varies with impedance. See the following AC ohms law formula wheel.
upload_2020-10-15_0-37-15.png


Note that if if you are given V and Z, the formula for power is P=(V^2)/Z Let's assume the amps provide 4 volts and you have two speakers. One speaker is 8 ohms and one speaker is 4 ohms.

4^2=16 so we will sub this value into the formula.

For 8 ohms P =16/8=2W

For 4 ohms P=16/4=4W

As you see the when the impedance is cut in half the power doubles.

Many real world amps cannot hold the voltage constant, so you don't get the full doubling of power. This is why your amp is rated for 45W at 4 ohms and 33W at 8 ohms. It's also possible that the amp is limited to 45W at 4 ohms because allowing it to make more power would exceed the current rating of the amp's output devices.

Let use the formula for I where we know P and Z I = sq rt of (P/Z)

For 8 ohms at 33W I = sq rt of (33/8) = sq rt of 4.125 = ~2A

For 4 ohms at 45W I = sq rt of (45/4) = sq rt of 11.25 = ~3.4A

For fun let do the math for an amp that can double power.

For 4 ohms at 66W I = sq rt of (66/4) =sq rt of 16.5 = ~4

As you see, if the amp can double its power when the impedance is cut in half, the current doubles.

Here is why the current is important. When current passes through the output devices it causes heat. If the output devices pass too much current, they will overheat and become damaged. So current is a limiting factor in how much power the amp can make and also how low of an impedance it can push. Therefore a minimum impedance is established for the design. This minimum impedance limits how much current passes through the output devices.

The discussion above relates to the way solid state amps work.

Tube amps are different. Tube amps use an output transformer to match the very high output impedance of the tubes to the relatively low impedance of the speaker(s). The optimum situation is for the amp to see the expected impedance. If the load is too high or too low, the transformer will not efficiently transfer power. So the result is decreased power and increased wear on the amp and tubes.

Some amps have multiple output taps so they can be connected to speakers with different impedance. For example the Ampeg V4B has output taps for 2 ohms, 4 ohms, and 8 ohms. As long as the impedance of your speakers is matched to one of the outputs of the amp it will be capable of making its maximum power.

Some amps only have one output tap that is setup for one specific impedance. For example the vintage blackface Fender Twin has a 4 ohm output transformer. This amp is designed to push a 4 ohm extension speaker as well, but this will result in an impedance mismatch, 2 ohm load on a 4 ohm output. Some amps do not do well with impedance mismatches. Also the recommended mismatch is the other way with some amps, I.E. 8 ohm load on a 4 ohm output is considered fine, but 4 ohm load on an 8 ohm output is not. If possible consult your owner's manual or the company who made the amp before running an impedance mismatch.

Probably a bit more technical than you wanted, but hopefully some of it was helpful.
 
The 50w tube amp should have a little bit extra poke than your proposed backup. It can put full power into 8ohms being a tube amp with matched transformer output.

That said, 33w isn't far short of 50w.

The effectiveness of adding power works on an inverse log scale. To be twice as loud is to be 10dB louder by definition. That takes 10x the power but frequently the cab would blow up first.

Each doubling of power gets you 3dB louder until you get to ''power compression'' where the motor heats up becoming less efficient.

The other thing is equivalent 4 ohm drivers are often less sensitive to power than their 8 ohm cousins. One step forward and half a step back.
Thank you! Very helpful.
 
ohms is essentially electrical resistance. There pure resistance which is constant regardless of frequency and their is also reactive resistance which varies with frequency. Reactive resistance is called impedance instead of resistance.

The reason power decrease with your amp when the load impedance changes from 4 to 8 ohms, is 8 ohms is higher impedance than 4 ohms (duh right?). Solid state amps try to produce the same amount of voltage regardless of the impedance so power varies with impedance. See the following AC ohms law formula wheel.
View attachment 4018568

Note that if if you are given V and Z, the formula for power is P=(V^2)/Z Let's assume the amps provide 4 volts and you have two speakers. One speaker is 8 ohms and one speaker is 4 ohms.

4^2=16 so we will sub this value into the formula.

For 8 ohms P =16/8=2W

For 4 ohms P=16/4=4W

As you see the when the impedance is cut in half the power doubles.

Many real world amps cannot hold the voltage constant, so you don't get the full doubling of power. This is why your amp is rated for 45W at 4 ohms and 33W at 8 ohms. It's also possible that the amp is limited to 45W at 4 ohms because allowing it to make more power would exceed the current rating of the amp's output devices.

Let use the formula for I where we know P and Z I = sq rt of (P/Z)

For 8 ohms at 33W I = sq rt of (33/8) = sq rt of 4.125 = ~2A

For 4 ohms at 45W I = sq rt of (45/4) = sq rt of 11.25 = ~3.4A

For fun let do the math for an amp that can double power.

For 4 ohms at 66W I = sq rt of (66/4) =sq rt of 16.5 = ~4

As you see, if the amp can double its power when the impedance is cut in half, the current doubles.

Here is why the current is important. When current passes through the output devices it causes heat. If the output devices pass too much current, they will overheat and become damaged. So current is a limiting factor in how much power the amp can make and also how low of an impedance it can push. Therefore a minimum impedance is established for the design. This minimum impedance limits how much current passes through the output devices.

The discussion above relates to the way solid state amps work.

Tube amps are different. Tube amps use an output transformer to match the very high output impedance of the tubes to the relatively low impedance of the speaker(s). The optimum situation is for the amp to see the expected impedance. If the load is too high or too low, the transformer will not efficiently transfer power. So the result is decreased power and increased wear on the amp and tubes.

Some amps have multiple output taps so they can be connected to speakers with different impedance. For example the Ampeg V4B has output taps for 2 ohms, 4 ohms, and 8 ohms. As long as the impedance of your speakers is matched to one of the outputs of the amp it will be capable of making its maximum power.

Some amps only have one output tap that is setup for one specific impedance. For example the vintage blackface Fender Twin has a 4 ohm output transformer. This amp is designed to push a 4 ohm extension speaker as well, but this will result in an impedance mismatch, 2 ohm load on a 4 ohm output. Some amps do not do well with impedance mismatches. Also the recommended mismatch is the other way with some amps, I.E. 8 ohm load on a 4 ohm output is considered fine, but 4 ohm load on an 8 ohm output is not. If possible consult your owner's manual or the company who made the amp before running an impedance mismatch.

Probably a bit more technical than you wanted, but hopefully some of it was helpful.
Thank you! This will be helpful.
 
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The difference in volume of your amp into a 4Ω load from an 8Ω load will be hardly noticeable. You don't need to get every last watt out of your amp.

Perhaps this will be even more helpful. If you have an low powered amp that is rated for 4 ohms minimum. The way to maximize performance is to used two identical 8 ohm speakers instead of one 4 ohm speaker. A solid state amp will typically make more power with the 4 ohm speaker, bit often the 4 ohm speaker will be slightly less efficient than the 8 ohm speaker.

When you pair cabs that are identical, you get acoustic coupling in the low end. Near perfect acoustic coupling occurs across the frequency range in which driver spacing is within approximately 1/4 wavelength. Essentially this helps the drivers couple to the air more efficiently, so they produce more SPL. The general rule is adding a second speaker will give you +6dB over the SPL one speaker would make with available power. But we need to keep in mind when we hook up the second speaker, the power sent to the first speaker usually drops.

With a tube amp the total power remains the same as long as the amp sees the expected load. This means when you plug the second speaker in, the power will be split equally between the two 8 ohm speakers. So if you start with 300W, each speaker will get 150W. Here is a rule: When power is cut in half, SPL drops by -3dB. When power is doubled SPL increases by +3dB.

Let's assume the speakers have 97dB sensitivity rating.
With one speaker receiving 300W the SPL =122dB​

When you add the second speaker the power is split evenly between the speakers
With one speaker receiving 150W the SPL =119dB​

Then when you have both speakers packed together, you get +6dB from mutual coupling.
119+6dB=125dB
So you see, you get a net +3dB if the total power remains the same when you add the second speaker. The SPL of the first speaker dropped -3dB when the power was cut in half, but then mutual coupling with the second speaker provided +6dB. So the net is -3+6=+3dB

If you have a solid state amp that can double the power when the load drops from 8 to 4 ohms, you get to entire +6dB from mutual coupling. The power doubles, but is then split evenly between both speakers. So the first speaker continues the receive the same power when the second speaker is added.

Since most solid state amps don't double the power when the load drops from 8 to 4 ohms. Expect to get +3- to 5dB

Let's do the figures for the OP's amp
44W at 96dB sensitivity = 112dB
This is for one 4 ohm speaker with a slightly lower sensitivity rating than the 8 ohm speaker​

33W at 97dB sensitivity = 112dB
This is for one 8 ohm speaker
22W at 97dB = 110dB+6dB=116dB
This is for two 8 ohm speakers splitting 44W. The 110dB is the SPL of one speaker at 22W. The +6dB is the gain in efficiency from mutual coupling.
Notice the single 4 ohm speaker is not louder than the single 8ohm speaker. This is partly because the 8ohm speaker has a 1dB higher sensitivity rating. Also the dB difference from 44W to 33W is only about 1.24dB, so the amp was barely able to make up the difference in the lower sensitivity of the 4 ohm driver. In this case there is no benefit to running the amp at 4 ohms. Also the amp will be more stressed at 4 ohms, so maybe you're better off running the 8 ohm speaker.

Another rule: It's generally accepted that the smallest change in SPL you can hear is 3dB. Taken in context with the previous rule on power doubling: If the 4 ohm speaker has the same sensitivity rating as the 8 ohm speaker and the amp doubles power when the load is dropped from 8 to 4 ohms, you will barely hear a difference (+3dB).

Notice the dual 8 ohm setup is 4dB louder than the single 8 ohm setup (116-112=4), and it is 4dB louder than the single 4ohm setup (116-112=4).
Also, because perfect acoustic coupling only occurs in the low end, using a second speaker will sound fuller in the low end. Ask yourself if this is desirable.

Many people wind up buying a 4 ohm speaker, with the idea of getting maximum power from their amp. Later when they don't have enough headroom they don't have the option of using an extension speaker to further expand the capabilities of their rig.

I used the Watts to dBm calculator for dB conversions. Watts to dBm conversion calculator You can not use the calculator directly because it is set to calculate dBm not SPL (dB). Here is how I fudge the math, since I don't know how to actually do it.

In the calculator, 1 Watt = 30dBm. So to figure out how loud a speaker will play, you need to know the speakers sensitivity at 1W. Input the amp's wattage at the speaker's impedance into the calculator and subtract 30 from the figure. This is calculating the decibel difference which is the same for SPL and dBm. Finally, add the result to the speaker's sensitivity rating.

For example. Your amp will make 33W at 8 ohm. 33W is 45.185dBm per the calculator. I rounded this down to 45 and subtracted 30 = 15. This answer is the decibel chance from 1W to 33W (15dB). We were using a 97dB sensitivity rating, so add 97 to 15 = 112.



Speaker sensitivity ratings are typically expressed something like this: Sensitivity 97dB 1w/1m. This means 1W was applied and the 97dB measurement was taken at a distance of 1 meter.

One thing to be careful of is sensitivity ratings are sometimes given at 2.83V instead of 1W. This makes the 4 ohm speaker appear to have a 3dB higher sensitivity rating because 2.83V at 4 ohms is 2W, and 2.83V at 8 ohms is 1W. Since you know that doubling the power results in a 3dB change, you can just subtract 3dB from the 2.83V at 4 ohm sensitivity rating to get the 1W sensitivity rating.
 
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